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Ok, this is actually a question. I'm not that big on string theory anymore, mainly because I don't think it's science, but this thought just struck me the other night.
Strings are actually energy, in the form of branes. At absolute 0, all energy is lost. Would such constitute the disappearance of ordinary matter? Or what about the expanding universe? Strings loose their energy to the expansion. What happens if they lose to much energy? If they stop giving it away then expansion stops. But if they don't then matter, again, jsut simply disappears (dont forget abotu leptons and the like a well. Everything would actually cease to exist!).
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String theory fails if energy is lost!
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#2
30 December 2004 - 03:51 PM
JaKiri 
Primate
All energy is not lost at absolute 0. Free energy is lost (including temperature, obviously), but there is still structural energy.
And it's not just string theory that would fall if all energy were lost at absolute 0; matter being energy is in Special Relativity and the Standard Model of Quantum Mechanics, too. String theory just includes it because it's true.
And it's not just string theory that would fall if all energy were lost at absolute 0; matter being energy is in Special Relativity and the Standard Model of Quantum Mechanics, too. String theory just includes it because it's true.
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#3
30 December 2004 - 06:28 PM
ydoaPs
just lost the game
JaKiri is right. lets take a look at the famous equation of the energy of matter at rest.
put in 0 for E, and solve for m. 
strings ad branes are different things. in brane theory, the ends of open strings are "stuck" to the brane that they are on, but closed strings, gravitons, are not.
put in 0 for E, and solve for m. strings ad branes are different things. in brane theory, the ends of open strings are "stuck" to the brane that they are on, but closed strings, gravitons, are not.
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"Scientism" is the pejorative those who believe in magic give to Empiricism so they can pretend making stuff up is on equal footing with Science.
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#4
31 December 2004 - 11:53 AM
5614
Genius
quantum theory states that even there is a minimum amount of energy that a particle must retain even at absolute zero (0K), this is referred to as zero point energy.
Jonathan aka 5614
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So, is the universe indeterministic? Probably!
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So, is the universe indeterministic? Probably!
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#5
31 December 2004 - 03:09 PM
1veedo
Organism
Forgot about that one 5614.
It would be pretty interesting watching what would happen to a string that goes between +quanta and -quanta :D
Too bad they retain their structure. That would've been a good way to test the theory.
It would be pretty interesting watching what would happen to a string that goes between +quanta and -quanta :D
Too bad they retain their structure. That would've been a good way to test the theory.
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#6
31 December 2004 - 03:10 PM
JaKiri
Primate
1veedo said:
It would be pretty interesting watching what would happen to a string that goes between +quanta and -quanta :D
Why would this happen?
1veedo said:
Too bad they retain their structure. That would've been a good way to test the theory.
No it wouldn't, for reasons I mentioned earlier.
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#7
31 December 2004 - 04:04 PM
Edward Duffy
Quark
Absolute zero is the temperature at which all motion stops. I believe this only applies to matter. I believe that energy is also particulate, just way too small and/or fast for us to observe directly. The lowering of temperature requires the removal of energy. I don't know that you could possibly remove all of the energy from a given space. Something has to occupy it or the space would simply collapse.
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#8
2 January 2005 - 02:52 AM
Sayonara³
Doomy doom ♫
Edward Duffy said:
Absolute zero is the temperature at which all motion stops.
Didn't you post that exact phrase in another thread, then JaKiri said it was wrong, and you said you didn't mean to say it?
The Dictionary is not a technical resource.
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#9
2 January 2005 - 02:26 PM
JaKiri
Primate
Sayonara³ said:
Didn't you post that exact phrase in another thread, then JaKiri said it was wrong, and you said you didn't mean to say it?
I thought that too, but the thread appears to have vanished. Either we're both confused, or it's been physically removed :eek:
Anyway, back to the subject at hand:
Quote
Absolute zero is the temperature at which all motion stops.
Once again, no it isn't.
Quote
The lowering of temperature requires the removal of energy. I don't know that you could possibly remove all of the energy from a given space. Something has to occupy it or the space would simply collapse.
'Zero' 'Point' 'Energy'.
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#10
2 January 2005 - 06:59 PM
Sayonara³
Doomy doom ♫
JaKiri said:
I thought that too, but the thread appears to have vanished. Either we're both confused, or it's been physically removed :eek:
http://www.sciencefo...0388#post120388
Your response seems to have become a victim of the disappearing posts mystery gremlin.
The Dictionary is not a technical resource.
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#11 8 January 2005 - 10:46 AM Guest_Greeniemax_*
Hi, I'm new to this forum.
I'm not physicist but I always loved physics, that's the reason I'm not a physicist, because when I don't get my logical explanation for something I can't live with the whole idea.
String theory does answer some of the questions, but it doesn't answer all of the, same goes for the Quantum Mechanics, where constant keeps on changing from micro to macro level and from one thing to another, it seems to me as if you could say anything and prove anything using Quantum Theory. And both these theories create more questions then answer them.
Problem with string theory is that it's not needed and based on same assumptions "God plays dice" that Quantum Theory is based on.
Lets put things in another way, Matter Particle Theory where dark matter is M=matter and E=Energy, nothing more nothing less.
No electrons, protons and Neutrons (which cannot be explained) and specially no "Photons".
Simply put every atom consists of two things E and M, amount of E that an atom can hold is limited, extra E would result in energy transfer and would cause vibration in the E-wall (event horizon of atom). As adding of E would increase the area of E-wall and decrease the size of atom core as more E and less M means more attraction toward center as E would need more M and there is less M and more E.
Same vibration in E-wall produces light which is nothing but a wave traveling through MP (Matter Particle) freely roaming around everywhere in the universe, frankly Jam packed, this also means that size of the universe is decreasing every second.
MP comes in different sizes atom is to Sun or Earth is to Sun ratio or even larger, doesn't really matter, as it can never become an atom as long as it doesn't achieve "critical mass".
Taking this model into consideration everything is explained clearly, including cause of gravity, as any atom is at equilibrium at 0K but any other temperature it has more E then M, Earth is one of the examples of that E more than M (Hot core), E and M attract each other as E cannot exist without M. Neither M can become E nor E could become M, they are totally different things (unlike in other theories).
More E any body has more attraction will it have toward other bodies with less E, the example of this could be seen when Sun would grow old and become a Red Gaint it would start losing it's M as it will not be able to hold it any more, as most of the E is lost when it gives out light and other type of radiations.
This structure of Atom and MP (Matter Particle) also explains clearly how a Black hole would work as it has more E then M, which gives it super gravity causing it attract MP around it faster and faster, high gravity means that MP have to travel long distance before they could reach event horizon of the black hole, which means that distance between MP1 and MP2 would increase and vibration cannot be passed on.
Secondly apply quantum theory would make this universe imperfect as it would lose energy as Photons of light cross the even horizon universe, this loss of energy cannot be prevented thus big crunch can not happen, thus this whole universe was just a fluke, that could only happen once in infinity (impossible).
With MP theory it's clear that no energy is lost as the light waves would travel as far as the event horizon and wouldn't travel beyond it, thus there is all the chance that Big crunch would happen and would be repeated by another big bang and so on, and as there are no external forces acting upon the universe, it would repeat as it has been repeating for infinite time.
I'm not physicist but I always loved physics, that's the reason I'm not a physicist, because when I don't get my logical explanation for something I can't live with the whole idea.
String theory does answer some of the questions, but it doesn't answer all of the, same goes for the Quantum Mechanics, where constant keeps on changing from micro to macro level and from one thing to another, it seems to me as if you could say anything and prove anything using Quantum Theory. And both these theories create more questions then answer them.
Problem with string theory is that it's not needed and based on same assumptions "God plays dice" that Quantum Theory is based on.
Lets put things in another way, Matter Particle Theory where dark matter is M=matter and E=Energy, nothing more nothing less.
No electrons, protons and Neutrons (which cannot be explained) and specially no "Photons".
Simply put every atom consists of two things E and M, amount of E that an atom can hold is limited, extra E would result in energy transfer and would cause vibration in the E-wall (event horizon of atom). As adding of E would increase the area of E-wall and decrease the size of atom core as more E and less M means more attraction toward center as E would need more M and there is less M and more E.
Same vibration in E-wall produces light which is nothing but a wave traveling through MP (Matter Particle) freely roaming around everywhere in the universe, frankly Jam packed, this also means that size of the universe is decreasing every second.
MP comes in different sizes atom is to Sun or Earth is to Sun ratio or even larger, doesn't really matter, as it can never become an atom as long as it doesn't achieve "critical mass".
Taking this model into consideration everything is explained clearly, including cause of gravity, as any atom is at equilibrium at 0K but any other temperature it has more E then M, Earth is one of the examples of that E more than M (Hot core), E and M attract each other as E cannot exist without M. Neither M can become E nor E could become M, they are totally different things (unlike in other theories).
More E any body has more attraction will it have toward other bodies with less E, the example of this could be seen when Sun would grow old and become a Red Gaint it would start losing it's M as it will not be able to hold it any more, as most of the E is lost when it gives out light and other type of radiations.
This structure of Atom and MP (Matter Particle) also explains clearly how a Black hole would work as it has more E then M, which gives it super gravity causing it attract MP around it faster and faster, high gravity means that MP have to travel long distance before they could reach event horizon of the black hole, which means that distance between MP1 and MP2 would increase and vibration cannot be passed on.
Secondly apply quantum theory would make this universe imperfect as it would lose energy as Photons of light cross the even horizon universe, this loss of energy cannot be prevented thus big crunch can not happen, thus this whole universe was just a fluke, that could only happen once in infinity (impossible).
With MP theory it's clear that no energy is lost as the light waves would travel as far as the event horizon and wouldn't travel beyond it, thus there is all the chance that Big crunch would happen and would be repeated by another big bang and so on, and as there are no external forces acting upon the universe, it would repeat as it has been repeating for infinite time.
#13
9 January 2005 - 02:15 AM
1veedo
Organism
I guess I read it someware...
Everything looses energy to the expanding universe. This is evident in blackbody radiation. Reason benig wraped up in thermodynamics. As things get bigger, densiter gets less, and thus energy gets spread across over a larger area, etc.
Everything looses energy to the expanding universe. This is evident in blackbody radiation. Reason benig wraped up in thermodynamics. As things get bigger, densiter gets less, and thus energy gets spread across over a larger area, etc.
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