[fleet1779]

Can the effects of friction and static electricity effect bodies on a galactic scale?

If the gravity source at the center of the galaxy is pulling matter in at such an accelerated rate then the friction must cause enormous energy to be released and electromagnetisim would be on an uncomprehendable scale, it must have some effect on even the outer reaches of the galaxy in question.

Has this effect been measured and can the electromagnetic forces in question help explain the speed of bodies in the far reaches of the galaxy?

Please answer in simple terms as I am at best a curious layman.

This post has been edited by fleet1779: 29 October 2011 - 07:27 PM

[SinkingBiscuits]

An interesting question fleet1779... you must remember that space is essentially a vacuum, therefore there is no friction, except perhaps trace amounts of internal friction. If friction existed, kinetic energy between atoms of the matter would increase, but disperse in the form of heat (and therefore wouldn't amount to any supreme force). I have no idea whether or not this effect has been measured, or if this scenario could possibly exist.

Also- what exactly do you mean when you say 'the speed of bodies'?

[fleet1779]

Thanks so much for the reply that clears some things up.

At the event horizon there are stars, planets, gasses and such (bodies) swirling around bumping and rubbing against eachother real fast. I thought this may create some kind of winding for the electrmagnetic force to act as a kind of generator (fuzzy sweater in the drier kind of thing). As the + hurridly tries to find the - I wondered if it could effect the speed outlying bodies in the galaxy, via the delta constant or dark matter or whatever the cool kids call it now-a-days. Like dust particles on my "sham-wow" (Doing my best Billy Mays impression (poorly))

[SinkingBiscuits]

fleet1779, on 1 November 2011 - 09:27 AM, said:

Thanks so much for the reply that clears some things up.

At the event horizon there are stars, planets, gasses and such (bodies) swirling around bumping and rubbing against eachother real fast. I thought this may create some kind of winding for the electrmagnetic force to act as a kind of generator (fuzzy sweater in the drier kind of thing). As the + hurridly tries to find the - I wondered if it could effect the speed outlying bodies in the galaxy, via the delta constant or dark matter or whatever the cool kids call it now-a-days. Like dust particles on my "sham-wow" (Doing my best Billy Mays impression (poorly))

Hmmm... this is a very interesting idea indeed... I'm not sure I have the knowledge required to adequately answer your question! What I can say, however, is that any force of gravitational pull large enough to draw in matter at a speed great enough to create an electromagnetic field with such influential force would be a blackhole. In this case, any electromagnetic energy created at the event horizon would be instantaneously pulled in by the gravitational force before affecting any outlying bodies. (For lack of a more scientifically sound explanation). That being said, I'm not sure if this scenario you have proposed could possibly occur.

I hope this has been of some help.

[fleet1779]

EM vs. G...

If the same forces of electromagnetisim that hold an atom together is applied to a grander scale what then? Does electromagnetisim win and bond the galaxy like an atom or is the bits of the galaxy wandering around all on thier own strictly acted on by the comparitivly whimpy forces of gravity?.

[superball]

fleet1779, on 29 October 2011 - 07:26 PM, said:

Can the effects of friction and static electricity effect bodies on a galactic scale?

If the gravity source at the center of the galaxy is pulling matter in at such an accelerated rate then the friction must cause enormous energy to be released and electromagnetism would be on an uncomprehending scale, it must have some effect on even the outer reaches of the galaxy in question.

Has this effect been measured and can the electromagnetic forces in question help explain the speed of bodies in the far reaches of the galaxy?

Please answer in simple terms as I am at best a curious layman.

wow, I was just thinking about the same thing, and looking for a place to post a few questions about black holes.
Not exactly the same, but close?

Just a quick background on my train of thought , before I found your post.
I was thinking of a black hole as the center of a hurricane. I was like Hmm? Then the question, Does a black hole act like a hurricane? It has bands, like a Galaxy, and in the center not much going on.
The eye-wall, and the eye itself at the center, Like a black hole with a twist.

Naturally I asked myself the question, what is the difference between the two? The black hole has a high mass, wile the hurricanes center is very much the opposite.
Back to the drawing board, Wile the concentration of mass appears at the event horizon, and not at the center of the black hole for obvious reasons. Wile the hurricane eye wall has the highest wind speeds.
I asked another question. If the pressure at the center is the lowest pressure of the hurricane, then could the black hole in the center actually have a lower pressure also, compared to the event horizon?

Now another question unfolded, Is the black hole acting as a generator, generating waves that reach the outer bands of the galaxy? I thought possibly. Then I was like wow, the generating low pressure at the center is causing magnetic, and electrical disturbances through out the entire galaxy, all the way to the outer arms that are in rotation.

Finally I was like Gravity at the center of either system is using a centrifugal force to distribute gravity, or energy throughout the system. (Gravity as in, a vortex of magnetic particles flowing outwardly.
Electricity, and magnetism acts in the same manner perhaps, One inward force centrifugal, one outward centripetal. (Inward force= electrical component, outward force=magnetic.)

I just had to share. Could you please speculate on these questions, and add a reply.

This post has been edited by superball: 18 November 2011 - 03:01 AM

[DrRocket]

superball, on 18 November 2011 - 02:45 AM, said:

wow, I was just thinking about the same thing, and looking for a place to post a few questions about black holes.
Not exactly the same, but close?

Just a quick background on my train of thought , before I found your post.
I was thinking of a black hole as the center of a hurricane. I was like Hmm? Then the question, Does a black hole act like a hurricane? It has bands, like a Galaxy, and in the center not much going on.
The eye-wall, and the eye itself at the center, Like a black hole with a twist.

Naturally I asked myself the question, what is the difference between the two? The black hole has a high mass, wile the hurricanes center is very much the opposite.
Back to the drawing board, Wile the concentration of mass appears at the event horizon, and not at the center of the black hole for obvious reasons. Wile the hurricane eye wall has the highest wind speeds.
I asked another question. If the pressure at the center is the lowest pressure of the hurricane, then could the black hole in the center actually have a lower pressure also, compared to the event horizon?

Now another question unfolded, Is the black hole acting as a generator, generating waves that reach the outer bands of the galaxy? I thought possibly. Then I was like wow, the generating low pressure at the center is causing magnetic, and electrical disturbances through out the entire galaxy, all the way to the outer arms that are in rotation.

Finally I was like Gravity at the center of either system is using a centrifugal force to distribute gravity, or energy throughout the system. (Gravity as in, a vortex of magnetic particles flowing outwardly.
Electricity, and magnetism acts in the same manner perhaps, One inward force centrifugal, one outward centripetal. (Inward force= electrical component, outward force=magnetic.)

I just had to share. Could you please speculate on these questions, and add a reply.

A black hole is a relativistic effect of an extreme concentration of mass/energy governed by the Einstein field equations of general relativity. A black hole is really a 4-dimensional structure in the Lorentzian spacetime manifold, and curvature of that manifold is both extreme and the major issue.

A hurricane is a fluid dynamic manifestation of continuum mechanics as described by the Naviere-Stokes equation, which is non-relativistic and applies in flat 3-space. The large-scale structure to which you refer is essentially 2-dimensional, though the flow involved is 3-dimensional and locally turbulent.

Any similarity between a hurricane and a black hole is pure coincidence.

[questionposter]

SinkingBiscuits, on 12 November 2011 - 02:58 AM, said:

Hmmm... this is a very interesting idea indeed... I'm not sure I have the knowledge required to adequately answer your question! What I can say, however, is that any force of gravitational pull large enough to draw in matter at a speed great enough to create an electromagnetic field with such influential force would be a blackhole. In this case, any electromagnetic energy created at the event horizon would be instantaneously pulled in by the gravitational force before affecting any outlying bodies. (For lack of a more scientifically sound explanation). That being said, I'm not sure if this scenario you have proposed could possibly occur.

I hope this has been of some help.

Wait a minute, how does electromagnetism get "pulled" by a black hole? Should that mean magnetic fields bend in the presence of gravity and therefore mean the force-carries for the EM force are either matter or photons? Also, how else could a black hole have an electric field if the EM force is actually effected by gravity like that?

This post has been edited by questionposter: 18 November 2011 - 03:31 AM

[superball]

DrRocket, on 18 November 2011 - 03:20 AM, said:

A black hole is a relativistic effect of an extreme concentration of mass/energy governed by the Einstein field equations of general relativity. A black hole is really a 4-dimensional structure in the Lorentzian spacetime manifold, and curvature of that manifold is both extreme and the major issue.

A hurricane is a fluid dynamic manifestation of continuum mechanics as described by the Naviere-Stokes equation, which is non-relativistic and applies in flat 3-space. The large-scale structure to which you refer is essentially 2-dimensional, though the flow involved is 3-dimensional and locally turbulent.

Any similarity between a hurricane and a black hole is pure coincidence.

Excellent information there, thank you for elaborating.

Now that brings me to another question. Maybe science had it wrong, just kidding? >space time fabric=space time waters.< If that was the case we could use fluid dynamics, or a manifestation of continuum mechanics to describe the universe? A little bird told me so. Again just kidding? Sorry, I went off on a tangent.

The real question, or magic unfolds from the effects of the black hole, were jets of high energy particles and material are sent out from the black hole, (perpendicular do the disk) expelling them perhaps faster then light, forming the new pockets of nebula moving at a high rate of speed. Given time the energy(material) would slow (condense), and rest to a degree forming new galaxy's that appear to be moving away from the observer. Red shift? I'm happy with that. (Top jet to form a positive attracting galaxy, bottom jet a negative charge repelling galaxy.) following the inverse-square law of course.

What do you think?

Again sorry if I am off on a tangent.

This post has been edited by superball: 18 November 2011 - 04:27 AM

[fleet1779]

Dr Rocket, What about the speed of gravity and the speed of light relationship? pure coincidence or a true relationship? I want to think it is the end of e=mc2.

Would a firecracker have the same observable effect in a high gravity environment as it does in low gravity environment. There must be a fractol or something that deals with the e=mc2/(fg) relationship

[IM Egdall]

fleet1779, on 18 November 2011 - 10:34 AM, said:

Dr Rocket, What about the speed of gravity and the speed of light relationship? pure coincidence or a true relationship? I want to think it is the end of e=mc2.

Would a firecracker have the same observable effect in a high gravity environment as it does in low gravity environment. There must be a fractol or something that deals with the e=mc2/(fg) relationship

Both photons and gravitons have zero mass. This is why they both go at the speed of light. All massless particles do (like gluons).

[morgsboi]

Dynamic friction even exist on the galactic scale. The gravitational tug of passing planets is much the same as the electrostatic forces between passing atoms. The coherent motion of groups of planets will eventually degrade into the random motion of individual planets.

Source: http://physics.info/friction/

[superball]

For your research, I love this guy. A brilliant passionate genius.



Cheers..

[fleet1779]

entropy, entrophy, entrophy.... where is all that engery going or better yet where did it come from?

I am still stuck on entropic gravity. Is gravity a force, or the product of other forces, or the origin of all the forces?

If all the gravity in the universe was at the singularity what is the relationship between galaxys and the galatic sphers?

There must be some property of thermodynamic entropy at work

What is the origin of gravity?

[IM Egdall]

fleet1779, on 28 November 2011 - 11:10 AM, said:

entropy, entrophy, entrophy.... where is all that engery going or better yet where did it come from?

I am still stuck on entropic gravity. Is gravity a force, or the product of other forces, or the origin of all the forces?

If all the gravity in the universe was at the singularity what is the relationship between galaxys and the galatic sphers?

There must be some property of thermodynamic entropy at work

What is the origin of gravity?

Per general relativity, gravity is the warping of space and time (spacetime) in the presence of mass/energy -- or so-called spacetime curvature. It is not a "force". Any energy and/or mass in the universe produces spacetime curvature. (And gravity itself has energy.)

At the big bang singularity, general relativity breaks down. So I think most physicists would say this singularity did not really exist and will be explained away by some future theory which combines general relativity and quantum mechanics.

The universe began in a low entropy state (as compared to its state going forward in time). As far as I have read, no one has explained why this is so (using theories verified by empiricial evidence).

Galaxies were formed as matter began to collect in the more dense regions of space -- due to gravity (spacetime curvature).

What is the origin of gravity? Since there was energy at the very beginning of the universe, it produced spacetime curvature or gravity.

Where did all the energy at the beginning of the universe come from? I don't think any one really knows. Some suggest it may be a quantum fluctuation. Virtual particles appear and annihilate each other in "empty" space. This is well-established from quantum theory and backed by experimental evidence (e.g. Lamb shift). So maybe there was a quantum fluctuation that occurred out of nothing which produced our universe.

I hope this helps.

This post has been edited by IM Egdall: 29 November 2011 - 12:11 AM

[fleet1779]

Thank you IM Egdall

The rotoatin of everything is my main focus. If the "toilet flush" model is to be used it requires more mass outside the event horizon less gravity inside the black hole, so the the "water/galactic debris " goes down in a swril and not get sucked straight in. Is this the dark matter or the delta constant that makes up this matter? I have been told stars have been observed orbiting at the center of the galaxy at upwards to 11 million mph.

How does the second law of thermodynamics apply to the release/transfer of energy in the entropic principle at the galatic scale.