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Universal Consciousness


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#21 AbnormallyHonest

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 10:28 PM

You say "ask a physicist" but I am fairly certain that most would tell you that is nonsense ("quantum woo" as it is sometimes called).
 

 
You need some evidence for that.


No I don't, you're just too arrogant to be stumped. But ok.... a wave of light passes through a slit, it's perceived... does anything change? Two rocks are falling to the earth, what will happen? What if I catch one? I'm using my iPhone to make this post, I suppose my iPhone must be a result of accretion? Or radiation? Or something purely explainable with the laws of nature. I am not the one with the burden of proof, just the burden of insight.

You say "ask a physicist" but I am fairly certain that most would tell you that is nonsense ("quantum woo" as it is sometimes called).
 

 
You need some evidence for that.


Evidence? How does nature create technology? How does nature propel a living being off a planet? How does nature collapse the wave of potential without consciousness? How does nature catch a rock and not let it hit the ground? How does nature harness energy and smash subatomic particles? How does nature decide when to obey the laws of nature or when to manipulate nature to allow for a different distribution of probability? If there is anything else I would require proof, but as there is not, it is not a speculation, just a reality.
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A question's difficulty is solely a measure of your willingness to answer.

We believe this reality exists with paradox... because knowing something more logical is unbelievable.


#22 Strange

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:41 PM

No I don't, you're just too arrogant to be stumped. But ok.... a wave of light passes through a slit, it's perceived... does anything change? 

 

 

It has nothing to do with perception. It doesn't require a human observer.

 

 

 

Evidence? How does nature create technology? 

 

We create technology. We are part of nature.


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#23 AbnormallyHonest

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 04:16 AM

It has nothing to do with perception. It doesn't require a human observer.

No, it may not, but it does require that the information be recorded, and how do you suspect that the information transfers discretely and onto another medium. I suppose nature has made some paradox for this to happen "naturally".
 

 
We create technology. We are part of nature.

I do not disagree, the matter if our bodies is natural, but where does that get you without consciousness. Just matter. The inception of consciousness is actually something not natural. It can act with disparity to nature, it can decide to violate the laws of nature. Is it is not practical to deduce, as the only thing that is known to harbor this ability, it must be something that does not exists under the same guise as the laws of the Universe we perceive. It is different, separate, unique. Perhaps something from somewhere else all together.

Also, I might add, since when did a philosophical perspective demand such rigorous scientific scrutiny?

Edited by AbnormallyHonest, 25 March 2017 - 04:17 AM.

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A question's difficulty is solely a measure of your willingness to answer.

We believe this reality exists with paradox... because knowing something more logical is unbelievable.


#24 Eise

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 04:49 PM

Shallow perspectives make for shallow arguments.

 
True. One of the shallowest arguments is 'I cannot imagine how this is possible, so I postulate a simple answer': Universal Consciousness! (Never forget the capitals).
 

I counter with, "ask a physicist". As far as all "empirical" data would suggest, the Universe is in fact a waveform that reduces to realization upon perception. This is at even the largest of scales. At the smallest, just the fact of perceiving a particle changes the way it behaves e.g. Exists. I suppose the scientists that have used this model for quantum physics for over a hundred years lacked "empirical" data as well.

 
As Strange already said above: this is quantum woo. You obviously explain something you do not understand, with something else you do not understand. Now that is shallow thinking.


Edited by Eise, 25 March 2017 - 05:04 PM.

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#25 swansont

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Posted 3 April 2017 - 11:14 AM

!

Moderator Note

A discussion hijack (everything after this) has been split

http://www.sciencefo...-consciousness/

 

Further hijacks to this discussion will be deleted.


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#26 goldglow

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:13 AM


. Being independent and harboring a unique perspective on the Universe is an essential for the Universe to experience itself, but for me, the wealth of experience that is offered by the collection and the possibility of influencing experiences through other arcs as they continue to form, would be a way to continue existence within this Universe and begin another day.

. If Humans, as a whole, do not understand this, and fail to recognize that we are not alone with absolute certainty, we will be choosing to allow our portion of the Zeitgeist to break off from the Consciousness we all owe our experience to. If this happens, the human experience will never be capable to of connecting to the larger collection of experiences throughout the Universe or contributing to its understanding.

A lot of what you write seems right to me; a lot of it  i don't feel qualified to comment on , but may i say, in friendship, that i feel quite differently about  the Zeitgeist/ Collective (Un)consciousness you write about.   I think it is more important to be an individual, ( not individualist ), not part of the Zeitgeist. For example, billions of people say " I am a Catholic ", billions of people say " I am a Muslim ", billions of people say " I am Chinese " , billions say "I am Indian" , others say " I am a Communist ", " I am a Conservative ". Many say " We must go to war " or  " We must kill unbelievers "  etc. etc., and in all this there is division and conflict. Then someone  says  " I am nothing "  and leaves this wellspring of thought , free of the collective influence and becomes an individual ( i.e. undivided ) . only then can there be any radical change in Humanity. We really must step out of this stream of consciousness, however frightening that may be. Forgive me  if i have misunderstood you.


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