ATP questions on bio..

[grayfalcon89]

Hi, I'm new to this site but I need a great help on my bio.

 

Question: How many ATP molecules are formed in process of glycolysis itself? How many ATP molecules are formed in the process of respriation? How many ATP molecules are formed in process of glycolysis and fermentation (meaning the combination of those two)?

 

I know for total thing, glycolysis and respiration whole thing will make 36 ATP molecules. But there occur confusion to me on the book. It seems the diagram is saying like 4 ATP are formed on glycolysis but in the paragraphs, it's only 2 ATP on glycolysis. Same thing for respiration. Diagram looks like 32 ATP but 34 ATP on paragraphs. For fermentation and glycolysis, I get 2 ATP. I don't know this is right or not.

 

This is extremely important to me. So, please help!

 

Thank you!

[LucidDreamer]

Four total molecules of ATP are formed during glycolysis. Two, however, are used during the glycolysis reactions. So the net gain is 2. Its the same thing for the total Atps made. 36 are made but some are used during the reactions.

[chadn]

Question: How many ATP molecules are formed in process of glycolysis itself?

 

4 ATP are produced by glycolysis, but glycolysis requires an input of 2 ATP so your net increase is only 2ATP. The process als produces 2 NADH, which are later used in the oxidative phosphorylation to form ATP.

 

How many ATP molecules are formed in the process of respriation?

 

A total of 2 ATP are produced. The Krebs cycle produces 6NADH and 2 FADH2 which are then used in oxidative phosphorylation to produce ATP.

 

Those 8 NADH and 2 FADH2 are then used in oxidative phosphorylation to produce around 34 ATP for a grand total of 38 ATP. However ATP is also used in various processes like tranporting molecules, so your net yield of ATP is usually lower, more like 36 or something.

 

How many ATP molecules are formed in process of glycolysis and fermentation (meaning the combination of those two)?

 

You have a gross of 4 and a net of 2 ATP from glycolysis.

 

Fermentation doesnt produce any ATP so you only get a total of 2 ATP from the entire process. The reason fermentation occurs is that in order for glyclysis to work you need NAD+ which is reduced to NADH during glycolysis. Fermentation replenshises the supply of NAD+ so that glycolysis can continue.

[chadn]

38 ATP is the maximum yield possible and so is only an estimate.

[grayfalcon89]

So, what you're saying is 4 ATP on the glycolysis, yet since 2 are used DURING the process, the gain is 2 ATP. And since 2 ATP on the beginning, the rest of them is 34 ATP on the respiration.

 

 

Hmm.. So, basically it's 2 ATP on glycolysis, 34 ATP on respiration, and 2 ATP on fermentation? Just talking about gain here

 

And, thank you for replies!

[LucidDreamer]

No ATPs are made during fermentation. 4 from glycolysis, 2 directly from the tca cycle and approxitmatly 34 from oxidative phosphorlyation, minus the two used in gycolysis and the result it 38. There is actually a range of 30 to 38 total made because the amount made by oxidative phosphylaton varies.

[budullewraagh]

in glycolysis you gain four ATP, but you lose 2. you also make 2 NADH. next you prepare your pyruvate for the Krebs cycle and in doing so, you make 2 NADH. in the Krebs cycle you make 2 ATP and 6 NADH as well as 2 FADH2. in the electron transport chain, you make 3 ATP per NADH as well as 2 ATP per FADH2.

so:

4+(10*3)+(2*2)=38 maximum yield, although it usually requires 2 ATP for active transport of the pyruvate into the mitochondrion.

[LucidDreamer]

Ok now I'm confused budullewraagh. Does the number 38 include the two lost during glycolysis?

[grayfalcon89]

So am I..

 

So what you people are saying is that my answer, or whatever I put on the last post is wrong? I see that no ATP is formed during the fermentation yet what i was trying to say was combination of fermentation and glycolysis...

 

Now, I'm stuck on difference between glycolysis and glycolysis & fermentation..

 

I know what fermentation is though.. Fermentation - anaerobic process for making ATP's. I think it's opposite of respiration.

 

At least that's what i read...

[LucidDreamer]

So am I..

 

So what you people are saying is that my answer' date=' or whatever I put on the last post is wrong? I see that no ATP is formed during the fermentation yet what i was trying to say was combination of fermentation and glycolysis...

 

Now, I'm stuck on difference between glycolysis and glycolysis & fermentation..

 

I know what fermentation is though.. Fermentation - anaerobic process for making ATP's. I think it's opposite of respiration.

 

At least that's what i read...[/quote']

 

Glycolysis is a ten step reaction that breaks down glucose into two pyruvates and makes a net total of two ATPs. During glycolysis certain reactions require the presence of a molecule called NAD+. The glycolysis reaction turns nad+ into NADH. Fermentation is a separate process that uses the pyruvate made from glycolysis and turns NADH into NAD+ so that Glycolysis can continue. Fermentation is one of three methods of turning NADH into NAD+. The other methods are the TCA cycle and anaerobic lactic acid formation.

[budullewraagh]

Ok now I'm confused budullewraagh. Does the number 38 include the two lost during glycolysis?

yes

I see that no ATP is formed during the fermentation yet what i was trying to say was combination of fermentation and glycolysis...

anaerobic respiration is glycolysis coupled with another reaction (or two if it is fermentation). the part that happens after glycolysis is only to recycle the NAD+. in fermentation, the pyruvate is oxidized, yielding carbon dioxide, and is then reduced by NADH to form NAD+ and ethanol. same thing happens with the lactic acid process except the pyruvate is not oxidized, but rather reduced directly

[chadn]

Ok now I'm confused budullewraagh. Does the number 38 include the two lost during glycolysis?

 

The reason you may end up with only 36 or so is that 2 ATP can be lost in transporting pyruvate.

 

I know what fermentation is though.. Fermentation - anaerobic process for making ATP's. I think it's opposite of respiration.

 

Im going to nitpick.

 

Respiration includes fermantation.

 

Fermantation is involved with Anearobic respiration. In aerobic respiration (what you're thinking of) there are two processes going on. The first is called the Krebs Cycle, the second is oxidative phosphorylation, more commonly known as the electron transport chain.

[grayfalcon89]

Ok.. I think I really need to get this on straight..

 

I realized that a) fermentation is totally different process in which NADH is converted to NAD+. This reacts them to carry out energy production in the absence of oxygen. And this doesn't matter to what the top said but the combination of glycolysis and fermentation produces (NOT THAT FERMENTATION PRODUCES BY ITSELF!!!), the result will be 2 ATP molecules from molecule of glucose. Thus, the answer is 2 ATP molecules for fermentation process. b) In glycolysis, practically, there are 4 ATP molecules formed. Yet, what the thing is that 2 ATP molecules of those 4 are actually came from the beginning thus the net gain, or the amount that had been gained, is actually 2 ATP molecules. Thus, it's 2 ATP molecules. c) Now this part is little bit tricky. The real amount of ATP molecules would be somewhere around 38 yet because of transporting and stuffs, 2 of them is gone, resulting total to be 36. Now, we can do subtraction and get 34 ATP is formed from respriation. But, we can explain this more thoroughly that at the end of glycolysis, we get 2 pyruvic acid, a 3-carbon compound. And that and some other stuffs can be transformed and we'll get 34 ATP.

 

That is my final answer and I think I'm right.

 

I hope so.

[budullewraagh]

oh i love AP bio...

we just had a test on respiration and photosynthesis last week

[chadn]

Ok.. I think I really need to get this on straight..

 

I realized that a) fermentation is totally different process in which NADH is converted to NAD+. This reacts them to carry out energy production in the absence of oxygen. And this doesn't matter to what the top said but the combination of glycolysis and fermentation produces (NOT THAT FERMENTATION PRODUCES BY ITSELF!!!), the result will be 2 ATP molecules from molecule of glucose. Thus, the answer is 2 ATP molecules for fermentation process. b) In glycolysis, practically, there are 4 ATP molecules formed. Yet, what the thing is that 2 ATP molecules of those 4 are actually came from the beginning thus the net gain, or the amount that had been gained, is actually 2 ATP molecules. Thus, it's 2 ATP molecules. c) Now this part is little bit tricky. The real amount of ATP molecules would be somewhere around 38 yet because of transporting and stuffs, 2 of them is gone, resulting total to be 36. Now, we can do subtraction and get 34 ATP is formed from respriation. But, we can explain this more thoroughly that at the end of glycolysis, we get 2 pyruvic acid, a 3-carbon compound. And that and some other stuffs can be transformed and we'll get 34 ATP.

 

That is my final answer and I think I'm right.

 

I hope so.

 

Good enough

[parrot]

:eyebrow: :eyebrow: :eyebrow: :eyebrow: :eyebrow: :eyebrow: :eyebrow:

Hi, I'm new to this site but I need a great help on my bio.

 

Question: How many ATP molecules are formed in process of glycolysis itself? How many ATP molecules are formed in the process of respriation? How many ATP molecules are formed in process of glycolysis and fermentation (meaning the combination of those two)?

 

I know for total thing, glycolysis and respiration whole thing will make 36 ATP molecules. But there occur confusion to me on the book. It seems the diagram is saying like 4 ATP are formed on glycolysis but in the paragraphs, it's only 2 ATP on glycolysis. Same thing for respiration. Diagram looks like 32 ATP but 34 ATP on paragraphs. For fermentation and glycolysis, I get 2 ATP. I don't know this is right or not.

 

This is extremely important to me. So, please help!

 

Thank you!

[thewirednerv]

A more realistic number for ATP production of aerobic respiration is 30-32 ATP per molecule of Glucose. I don't know why high school biology and especially why AP Biology texts and teachers are stuck on the 36-38 ATP thing. Even in some intro bio college courses they still give these numbers.