making ethanol based wax

[Mariasweden]

hi evrey one, i saw a candle that burn with blue flame, i know that metals give the blue flame but the qestion is how can a a fuel that solve metals? maybe ethanol wax was some one who told me but i cheeked that ethanol gel have Ca2+ that will ruine the color of the flame. any sugestion what can fuel low in carbon wax like strukture solve metals för those candels that burn with color flame? thanx för answering:-)

[hermanntrude]

some blue flames come from hydrocarbon fuels when burned in very specific conditions (like the blue flame of the bunsen burner with the chimney open). perhaps the candle was made of an unusual hydrocarbon?

 

You are correct that a coloured flame can also come from metals... sulfur will also do it, although it would create sulfur dioxide as a product which is harmful... so it probably wasnt that. According to wikianswers.com, you can get a blue flame from arsenic (probably not what you saw), selenium (also probably not), Indium (also probably not... quite expensive) or copper halides. My guess is that the candle you saw had some copper chloride, iodide or bromide in it.

 

as for the solubility, it doesn't really matter. The copper salt could just be sprinkled into the wax in a very fine powder and as long as it was dispersed throughout the wax it wouldnt matter that it didnt dissolve.

[Mariasweden]

some blue flames come from hydrocarbon fuels when burned in very specific conditions (like the blue flame of the bunsen burner with the chimney open). perhaps the candle was made of an unusual hydrocarbon?

 

You are correct that a coloured flame can also come from metals... sulfur will also do it, although it would create sulfur dioxide as a product which is harmful... so it probably wasnt that. According to wikianswers.com, you can get a blue flame from arsenic (probably not what you saw), selenium (also probably not), Indium (also probably not... quite expensive) or copper halides. My guess is that the candle you saw had some copper chloride, iodide or bromide in it.

 

as for the solubility, it doesn't really matter. The copper salt could just be sprinkled into the wax in a very fine powder and as long as it was dispersed throughout the wax it wouldnt matter that it didnt dissolve.

 

thanx for answering. But its like this candels

as you se it have the same shape and struture as regular candels but when asking them, they say its not wax based candels. and that the temprature for those candels are higher so the metals will imitt other wise they will not be clean coloers. so its not wax, what can it be?

[hermanntrude]

here's the patent: it describes what the candles are made of

 

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6712865/description.html

 

it's mostly trimethyl citrate, apparently, with metal salts and/or complexes and pigments

[Mariasweden]

here's the patent: it describes what the candles are made of

 

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6712865/description.html

 

it's mostly trimethyl citrate, apparently, with metal salts and/or complexes and pigments

 

thank u for the link finnaly i know :Dnow the answer . now i have another question, ethanol + citric acid will it give me trethyl citrate or? it should be so alkohol + acid ------> ester do u know somthing about it?

[hermanntrude]

esterification requires either an acid or a base catalyst, OR you can use the acid chloride instead of the acid, OR you can use a coupling agent like DCC/DCU (I may have those acronyms wrong and i don't remember what they stand for either).

 

My guess would be that trimethyl citrate (notice it's triMETHYL, not triETHYL, as you said) would be hard to make by simple methods, since there'd be a lot of steric hindrance on the citric acid (it's crowded).

[Mariasweden]

ok mayby i will se if i found another way to aschive a fuiel. what do u say about this a fuel that solve with a chelating agent like C-vitamin wish inturn chelate Metall to a wick and give nice coler do u know an easy way to make such fuiel or if it already exiest on any stores. i know auperabsorbent that exiest on diapers that can make thanol jelly like but if ading to this jelly salt it will be liquid again. do u have any ides how to overcome this problem? i am fashinating about all kind of colored flame i want to do my own.