Guest md101 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Do any of you think it is possible that we have 2 universes growing at different places in the nothingness? While reading some posts my mind got warped and i thought of that, thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 different "places"? no... out of "Phase" yes. and equaly identical in everyway to this one, but in the negative (along the lines of anti-matter or similar). thats only MY opinion however Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 If there are 2 universes in the same "space" that are out of phase with each other there is no reason to believe they must be identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 there would indeed be a time lag, and therefore not "identical" in a temporal sense, but a physical one definately. (this is only My OWN theory btw, and can cite nothing as a backup). One "Big Bang" 2 Universes (universes? universii Hmmm.. what is plural for universe?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Universes. Universii would only apply if 'universe' ended with an 'i'. (People who say "virii" as the plural of virus are retarded, so laugh at them). If there were two big bangs exactly what mechanism would cause temporal lag yet constrain each universe to precisely the same physical structure and development? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 well I recon there was ONE big bang. but that occured much later than the prior events. I recon matter was constantly being brought in and out of existence all the while. until sufficient matter came into being that it imploded with such violence as to make permenant the rift that allowed matter to exist in the 1`st place. I think on here in a different thread I posted my Penny and Bank analogy. how DO you get something from nothing? well,,, the fact is you cant without creating a simultanious defficite(sp?). ie/ you go into debt. you start with a bank ballance of 0 money but you walk out of the bank with a penny! a real and solid penny! but at the same time you still owe the bank a penny now the penny in your pocket is tangible and quite real and usable, the MINUS penny in your account is also just as real, and were the two to meet, they would self anihilate and you`de be left with nothing. since the same would have to happen on both sides identicaly (if not they`de self anihilate and we`de never know of them anyway) I conclude that although out of phase by an undetermined amount, the same course of events would occur on both sides of the equasion in an identical manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 The bank balance analogy is quite good for describing a universe and, for want of a better term, an anti-universe created by the same event. However, your negative penny is defined only by its monetary value, because the coin itself does not exist. Since this is the only common attribute between the coins, this would be why we said they were identical. If you took 10p out of your account you would have no way of identifying which penny matched which negative penny, as they all have an identical monetary value and there is no physical common factor between penny and -penny. ... I've forgotten where I was going with this now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 ... oh yeah. While it's true that one atom is pretty much identical to any other of the same element, this is where the similarity with the coins ends. The virtual coins in the bank can't interact with each other or the virtual coins in other accounts, but real coins get all over - for instance I might withdraw 50p and get it changed into 10p pieces, but I am still at -50p, whereas in this model I should have a balance of 5(-10). Also, if you make a withdrawal of £10 and spend £5, you still have -£10 compared to your original bank balance - so in the universe model this would translate to one universe exerting consequences upon the other, but not necessarily suffering them itself. Atoms arrange themselves into molecules, and objects at a macroscopic level, but the critical element here is that they don't stay that way. Water freezes, ice melts, steam condenses, suns die, rocks break, stallagtites grow, plutonium decays... So what mechanism keeps both universes "in synch"? I guess that was a lot to write for one simple question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 you make a good point, it is indeed a VERY simplistic analogy and designed to be taken at face value alone to explain the HOW. of course we know that universe is made of kazillions of different types of mater and all changing form as we type. but to split particle from it`s anitimater twin and make it secure, all that exists must be identical. any deviation from this would result in anihilation. I`ve probaly not explained this clearly as it`s not something I`ve ever vocalised myself, I only have the "picture" in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 ok, i just read your second post after I finished my last one, and I agree also with you to a point. I don`t see it as a Black and White split. our uni and the anti-uni, imagine it as a phasic joining. black to white and all transitional stages between, but still in essesce equal and opposite, that`s how I beleive we can make anti matter here and at the same time, the OTHER you would be making matter there there will be incidences far to random to calculate whereas the "blast" was more profound at this point than at another and so the degree of phase will differ (the grey part between black/white). but where it matches the matter in OUR KNOW universe, it will have it`s identical twin particle for particle distance for distance between them, and will do the same as it did here in OURS. that`s about the way I can ellucidate this for now, till yet, it`s only ever been a picure in my head that only I understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 YT2095 said in post #10 : that`s how I beleive we can make anti matter here and at the same time, the OTHER you would be making matter there I understand the general idea, but... how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Well in all honesty, I`m not actualy sure HOW they make anti-matter here at all? so you`ve got me there, I just know that it has been done, and that soon after its creation it encounters it opposite and gives off aniti-matter anihilation radiation. but no I can`t answer how they do it? to my view though, it is a method of bridging the gap between phase differentials, and therefore only accelerating entropy and ballance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 No, I mean how does an action in one universe affect events in the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 well I see it like this, when the big bang happened, particles that seperated (matter and anti ) that were IN PHASE with us at this point of the bang would scatter throughout their respective universes at same distances velocities charges etc... and therfore follow identical paths to ours. just one would be OURS (you and me now) and the other would be theirs (still you and me, but diametricly opposed in evreyway, they wouldn`t even know it. WE would be the odd ones ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt_f13 Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Originally posted by YT2095 ok, i just read your second post after I finished my last one, and I agree also with you to a point. I don`t see it as a Black and White split. our uni and the anti-uni, imagine it as a phasic joining. black to white and all transitional stages between, but still in essesce equal and opposite, that`s how I beleive we can make anti matter here and at the same time, the OTHER you would be making matter there Im pretty sure antimatter is not negative anything... It's merely matter that moves differently. Spins the opposite way on its axis etc. It takes more energy to create an antiparticle than it gives out when it explodes because of contact with normal matter. The energy it puts out however is evidence that it is not negative anything. Think E=MC^2 . Litterally. Two atoms, H and anti H produce 2MH kg * C^2 m/s = 2MC^2 kg m/s 2*(1.68 * 10^-27) * (3*10^8)^2 = 3.024*10^-10 kg m/s = 3.024*10^-10 Watt*Seconds Therefore 1 kg of matter/antimatter will produce: 1 * (3*10^8)^2 kg m/s =300000000 WS =1.08*10^9 kWh !!!!! That's alot of energy. Once this is cracked to usable standards (or we find an antimatter comet somewheres) energy consumption will not be a problem, as long as we have dirt. What I think you guys are talking about something similar to negative energy, which IS a defecite in physical particles. Antimatter is made up of the same sub-sub-atomic particles. My theory is that there is a huge -energy build up somewhere in the universe, either at the edge or center. -Energy is antigravitational so it could be why the universe is accellerating. I'm pretty sure I'm right on this. Antimatter was created at some underground particle accellerator in the mid US I think. My resources are Science Weekly (I think) and elementary physics. I'll post again if I find the issue with antimatter in it. It did mention antimatter planets/universes, but you do not want to go there, as the matter in your body would actually destroy much of the planet you arrived at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt_f13 Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 http://livefromcern.web.cern.ch/livefromcern/antimatter/factory/AM-factory00.html Very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Alt_f13 yeah, the negative bit is how I see it, I just use "antimatter" as I don`t know what else to call it really. like in my 1`st post (along the lines of antimatter). do you know if this negative stuff has a name at all? I picture an anti hydrogen, atom identical to the ones we have here, but opposite in everyway, but would behave exactly like H does here in it`s OWN universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt_f13 Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Ah, well that could be antimatter by definition, except anitmatter exists in our universe. I always speculated at negative matter, but in our universe it is unstable. I'm not sure it can even reach matter stage, merely energy. Of course I've only read about it a few times, and have yet to see a long article on it in a credible magazine or paper. I would user different terminology in the future though, as antiparticles and negative particles are distinctly different. Now, imagine a negative anti-particle impacting with a negative "normal" particle. That would be a negative energy explosion!!! How would that kind of "negative" explosion affect positivle normal particles? Merely blast them into nulldom? Very interesting. Edit -- Here is an idea for energy production. Shoot a normal everyday atom with a negative particle. It would tear through the atom, ripping apart the infrustructure, until it reaches nulldom, realeasing its energy!! Negatives answer to antiparticle energy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt_f13 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Astounding eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 that "nulldom" being your $ 0.0 account ballance before visiting the bank (the starting point of everything). well to consider that it`s just an idea that occured while bored some 15 years ago, it sure all sounds quite plausible (tho not complete in details). but I`m also sure greater minds than mine would have have come up with it long before me though, so its probably wrong, but it suits all my mental models when I think of things and I feel happy using it thnx for listening to it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 alt_f13 said in post #20 :Astounding eh? I certainly can't disagree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 what`s astounding here? or shall I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Go on, have a guess :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 erm... my model`s too simple and ya can`t beleive how anyone could be so stoopid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now