recursive

decomposition with manganese oxide ?

 

what would the rotio of gas be to water at ,say 50% H2O2

You will know when it reaches 70% because at that point, when it decomposes, all of the water in it will be vaporized, leaving little or no material left.

how exactly do you evaporate off the water??

If you are seriously incapable of evaporating water, you really shouldn't be dealing with things that explode. You know, when you blow on something to make it dry faster... evaporation's like that, except you don't do anything at all.

Silver also catalyzes the decomposition. It's often more convenient that manganese dioxide, especially if it reacts with the zinc when you try to get it out of the battery...

I don't exactly trust myself not to cause an explosion, so please tell me, could this reaction work with vapor distillation? And would it use the same setup as regular distillation?

Well, the good old brine solution will do just that...

So if saltwater counts as from scratch, then that's all you really need to know!

There's also a way to make lye from birch ash, limestone and water, but you probably want electrolysis...

Then again, there is a search forum button...

"I think that the sulphuric acid might have aluminum sulfate in it, although I'm not sure what that would do..."

Among the things it would do is dissolve in sulphuric acid, but not in alcohol.

Ah-hah! Well that also means I purified the sulphuric acid, sort of.

Well, what are other dehydrating agents for ethanol? All the sources I've seen say that there are others, but they won't tell me which. Any searches I do for that sort of thing returns all sorts of funky patents, but nothing useful!

Dehydration of alcohol to either alkyl-hydrogen sulfate or ether or alkene all come sdown to the reaction temperature as well as the amount of sulfuric acid.

 

Provided you use conc. H2SO4, then the reaction is controlled by temperature. Below 80ish oC you would only get equlibrium mix. of alkyl hydrogen sulfate.

 

When you increase the T to ca. 120ish oC, you will start distill of some ether

 

and to actually get alkene, you need to go to as high as 180ish oC.

 

Check my temperature again, too lazy to cross check them with the lit. =)

 

Oh, also, it is better to add alcohol slowly throughout the process to sulfuric acid, esp. if you aim for ether and alkene.

If you are heating it over 120C, what keeps the ether from exploding?

From time to time I hear about a tragedy where someone has entered a tank or well or some such and been overcome by fumes- his friend has gone in to help and has also been rendered unconsious then died too. Sometimes a third "wannabe hero" dies before someone catches on and gets the help of the fire service or someone who has breathing apparatus.

 

Cleaning up an ether spill is potentially lethal for at least 2 reasons. The fumes can incapacitate you, and the stuff is damn near spontaneously flammable.

OK, so there's no bunsen burner. Unless the guy was naked there's a severe risk of static elctricity from clothing causing the last spark he ever needed to worry about.

 

Hermanntrude's solution to the problem was better, but the bit about holding his breath gives the game away. If you need to do that they there's not enough air.

If there's not enough air then you shouldn't be there.

 

If this sort of thing happes again leave the area and make sure everyone else does, sound the fire alarm if there is one. Let people who have air tanks and fireproof clothing worry about it.

If you have any doubts about this advice, call your local search and resue or fire dept. I'm sure they will explain they would rather turn up to open a window or two than to recover a body.

And just think... In the late 19th century, people used to drink that stuff!

Going out for a smoke, and then your torso spontaneously combusts! That definitely qualifies as one of the most dangerous things to do with ether.

Actually if you drank hot coffee right after that, I think that would cause it to boil. A lot.

So anyways... it would be slightly less exploding-in-your-face if some ethanol and BHT were added. Plus I don't have to keep it around forever... Actually, I could top off a jar with liquid nitrogen. That would stop peroxides...

Does anyone know if fisher scientific sells to individuals?

There seems to be kooky medicinal places talking about it. It would be great to order moderately not-unpure ether from a quack! In fact, that would be the preferred source!

Once it reaches 70% concentration, it becomes capable of instantly vaporizing all of its contents in a very large liquid-to-gas explosion. Careful there... You can get it to exploding concentrations (above 30%) just by evaporating off the water. (It helps if it's in solvent that evaporates faster. The stuff I had was 80% ethanol, 5% H2O2, and 15% mystery solvent.)

So, the easiest way is the simplest: evaporate off the water.

Tip: Do this outside. Or you will end up like my profile picture...

And if you want rocket propellant, try dripping it over silver mesh. That makes it decompose. Then you might need something to use all that oxygen. (By the way, under an oxygen-rich atmosphere, even a solid brick of iron will burn.)

Enjoy!

Experimental uncertainty just means that you can't know every aspect of your experiment. If you did, Heisenberg would rise from his grave and get very angry with you...

Does anybody know where an individual can buy diethyl ether (60-29-7), in quantities that are reasonably unlarge (not more than $50)?

I know about how most vendors will only ship it out to "educational institutions" and businesses, but if you can but 80% ether as starting fluid, it seems ridiculous that nowhere is there any 90% or 95 or... you get the idea!

Thanks for helping!

I think that the sulphuric acid might have aluminum sulfate in it, although I'm not sure what that would do...

Plus, even wikipedia is unclear as to what happens under normal conditions. In one place it says you get diethyl ether (a desirable result...), but then it says that this exact same process is used to produce ethylene, without mention of other chemicals coming out of this.

Can another acid be used in place of sulphuric acid?

If you know a better way of making diethyl ether, please tell me!

Weird.

Those two liquids should be miscible in all proportions. There are possible by-products (ether, etc) gut in the presence of a lot of water you shouldn't get them. In any event, most of the possibilities are liquids.

 

My best guess is that one of the starting materrials isn't what you think it is.

Could the so called "sulphuric acid" be sodium bisulphate?

I'm pretty sure it's sulfuric acid. That's what it says on the label, and I've never heard of sodium bisulfate being used in photography.

I read on the magical Wikipedia that ethylene can be produced by distilling ethanol and sulfuric acid. So I set up my flasks, and mixed ethanol (denat. w/ methanol) with sulphuric acid from a photography chemical set. But then something unexpected happened: in the flask, small white crystals very quickly formed like sand, replacing about 2/3 of the liquid!

What is this, and why did this happen?

Thanks in advance!

Okay fine, I'll write a disclaimer!

i searched in the forum, and found this, http://kclo3.velp.info i hope it will be usefull for you.

Thanks. I guess I will try again with graphite, and just see if I can filter it out or something. Besides I'll probably be fine with impurities, as long as there's some chlorate or hydroxide in there somewhere.

By the way yt I didn't say to do something unsafe (with the lead batteries and everything)... I just didn't mention precautions, because we already know lead is toxic. But I'm sorry if somebody was actually going to do something dangerous. Actually now that I think about it... the inhaling hydrogen thing was definitely dangerous for most people, but since I live in the middle of 5 acres of grass, I think I could be safe from all that; but, not in an urban area.

Hmm... This is really getting complex but what I know is that if I run my 50kv tesla coil for even a few seconds I can smell the ozone! It's a great oxidiser, but don't tell that to your lungs...

Thermite makes you go blind, so... I would count that one too! Plus I think most things glow white at 3000 Celsius. At least there should be white glowing globs of molten iron...

thx guys

but one more thing

 

last night one of my four 9 volt batteries exploded out the bottom

ya so that was kinda bad

 

but does anyone have any idea why that would happen? was it just too may volts?

 

and any ideas for a Sulfite commonly found?

Judging from your previous posts, maybe you wired it backwards. But also shorting batteries tends to make them explode, so if the wires came too close then you would have that problem. Also were your batteries in series or parallel?

And obtaining them from salvaged items like depleted batteries insulates you from their toxicity how?

I don't think it does, but I know that according to the rules it's something called a 'hazmat violation'.

I couldn't figure out why I got it though...

A car battery has lead dioxide rod in it but i've heard that the coating isn't good and will come off. Using lead anode and cathode in a nitrate solution just grows cyrstals on the anode. So the previous method is the best get copper nitrate at united nuclear and lead nitrate at ebay "remember these are toxic chemicals". Don't think bismuth will work.

Sounds good but I don't buy stuff. The excitement of chemistry is the fact that it happens when you don't buy chemicals with funky names that kill you if you look at them funny!

Wow that was a long post.

Here's my answer:

PANPSYCHISM!

I got a lot of bismuth oxide by accident just by melting it over aluminum foil, which increased its surface area. About 75% yield of oozy bismuth mess, aka the oxide.

Initially, NaOH at the cathode and chlorine at the anode. the NaOH diffuses across and then reacts with the Cl2 to give NaClO.

This can also get oxidised to NaClO3 etc. Of course, all this presumes that your electrodes are inert.

Overall you get quite a mixture, but no sodium.

You can make sodium by electrolysisng molten NaOH but I don't recommend doing that at home and the yield isn't very impressive because the stuff tends to catch fire as soon as you make it.

Yes, for the home chemist, simple advice : never leave your apparatus unattended. If you short your power source, then all hell will break loose. Especially with molten hydroxide or nacl...

Melvin, isn't potassium dichromate in HeadOn? I remember reading it there... Quite convenient... But my graphite electrodes began crumbling. Then later when I shorted them for fun they exploded, so... Either way they hardly work. Would a gold plated usb thingy work? Just ripping out the plates...

Well here are a list of anodes "the electrodes in the cell that dont bubble" that you should use. Graphite "very corrosive especially at low chloride concentration in the cell but makes chlorate ", lead dioxide its aslo called "poor mans platinum" works very well, although corrodes at low chloride concentration , but its hard to find. To make it you need to electrolyze a acidified solution of lead nitrate and copper nitrate the anode should then have a nice coat of lead dioxide. All those other metals you have will not make chlorate if used as a anode, but can be used as a cathode.

mmm ill just rip open a car battery! oh and I have some chunks of lead. can't I just throw oxidizers at my lead chunks? oh and would bismuth work?

I knew we'd be getting stuff like this when they released the new Alvin and the Chipmunks movie.

Hahahahaha (ha)...

Exploding chipmunks!