me2_2

2 hours ago, studiot said:

 

I have not looked at this thread before but this post caught my eye in the list.

So I looked at the OP and to my suprise the only question I could find in the OP was

 

 

So as things stand I couldn't understand the OP

I don't know who Alan is or was

So I am at a loss to proceed.

 

The only thing I can suggest of help is to refer you to the 1960 film  "The Bulldog Breed"

Which was about a scenario not dissimilar from the one you describe, except it was set at the UK national cold research centre and featured Norman Wisdom, not students.

This centre produced over 1000 papers whilst it was active, they must still be a matter of public record so I suggest you start there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Cold_Unit

As I noted earlier, the OP was copied and pasted from a prev participation of mine (another forum or email group). Alan is university physician from Canada. Yes, the OP should've been more carefully edited!

Your https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Cold_Unit  link is EXACTLY the type of information that will help me synthesize my research. Thx!

It would be helpful if similar animal "unit" studies on say, rabies, is also available.

3 hours ago, exchemist said:

They are. And you have been told where to find this scholarship. So go and look it up and stop wasting our time. 

All of your posts have been OFF-TOPIC and emotionally generated.

If my posts offend you, stop replying those them. Put me on your ignore list. It's THAT simple, toots.

4 hours ago, swansont said:

 

We are not your research minions, to be sent off to the library to seek out citations for you. 

It's interesting how much TIME and EFFORT you and others replying to my queries engage in DEFLECTION -- and increase NEGATIVE REPUTATION POINTS -- rather than even ATTEMPT to address the OP?

Can we be friends and start over?

Let's try to find as many resources as possible to the OP colds/fly query.

If pathogen-caused common colds and flu's are normal and nearly as old as life on earth ... then one would expect common colds and flu's to be part of the academic scholarship ... with rich, robust, repeatable and reliable data (i.e., journal papers). Perhaps similar to numerous journal papers related to: diet and exercise and vitamin supplements and sleep-quality/sleep debt and air pollution and ....

4 hours ago, swansont said:

If someone had the knowledge, they could share it, but expecting them to do the legwork for you is….

Well I'm a complete noob to the field. And it is CaronY that carries the title "Biology Expert" above his/her name.

Respectfully, y'all are DEFLECTING big time from the main query. It's OBVIOUS to anyone reading this thread that on such a fundamental issue such as animals in the lab being tested/studied for common colds/flu's ... no-one has clear answers.

And now THAT very fact has become part of the permanent microbiological academic record. Or has it?  Do y'all know of another science forum that has ... how shall we put this delicately ... a more informed microbiology section?

47 minutes ago, CharonY said:

This is not a satisfactory effort on your end. As mentioned, there is an abundance of studies out there. If you are not even willing to read the two I provided, what makes you think that folks would be willing to sacrifice their time to do work for you?

Respectfully, I'm a newbie here. And your title claims you are "Biology Expert" and (concomitantly) a Moderator. I don't even know where to data-mine the " abundance of studies out there" you claim exist.

As far as " what makes you think that folks would be willing to sacrifice their time to do work for you" ... isn't that what an Internet forum - eBBS -- is meant for?

This is not Reddit!

19 hours ago, exchemist said:

I've never heard of that. Do you mean terrain theory, the ideas of that crank (and jailbird) Robert O Young, and all that? 

Sorry I misspelled it!

Wikipedia USED to have a dedicated page on TERRAIN THEORY and then (post COVID) changed the article name to: Germ theory denialism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory_denialism

Also see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_Béchamp

19 hours ago, CharonY said:

 Here, you can also check reference citing it (rather than those cited) in order to see who might have done similar work.

 

This is not a satisfactory reply.

That is why I posted this query on this science forum. I keep running into dead ends at other places like PubMed.

BOTTOM LINE: Human and animal LAB-BASED microbiological studies using common-illness-causing pathogens should be comprised rich, robust and heavily populated database.

BOTTOM LINE 2: I wanna see Mus musculus sneezing (or not) .

12 minutes ago, exchemist said:

What is the nature of your research? 

Terrian theory.

5 hours ago, CharonY said:

A few things to that. Those studies usually aim to establish the minimal infectious dose and only establish limited, dose-response relationships. I.e. you can have dose escalation, but you would want to keep levels overall low and mostly monitor binary outcomes. I.e. you do not want the patients to get very sick for very obvious reasons. Another study goal can be to evaluate protective properties drugs to prevent disease and here different treatment groups would be exposed to an infectious dose of the pathogen.

However, these studies are not very common a) due to the need to mitigate risk, b) are often fairly expensive,  but also b) because for certain diseases somewhat decent animal models have been established that mimic human exposure and are used instead.

That being said there are quite a few studies around. For influenza you can go back to at least the 60s and there are occasional updates when new variants come around, for example. For more harmless diseases these study might also exist, but are less likely to get funded, if they there is not some kind of public health interest behind them (e.g. for the development of antivirals or other drugs).

 

Right ... and that's what I need for my research!

(a) URLs for those ("quite a few studies around. ")  studies.

(b) URLs for studies on animal (or plant or other domain) of deliberately administered infections -- particularly viral -- under controlled lab / research conditions.

BOTTOM LINE: can you get animals or plants virally sick in a lab, under controlled, measured and measurable circumstances and conditions?

Surely govt labs (Wuhan, UN/WHO, NIAD, CDC) have done such work ... and published the results ... yes? Or maybe there we clandestine like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States#Pathogens,_disease_and_biological_warfare_agents

The OP was posted pretty much verbatim on another site a while back. I posted  it  here on SF w/o much editing  due to lack of time. The other site -- a health and wellness site -- was NON-SCIENCE site and the orig. query was not answered by the membership. I added to (edited in) more topical information as  i later discovered it.

The original query remains mostly unanswered. That is, given the prevalence of common colds and low-grade viral ailments, why aren't more dose-response studies (and similar experimental-designed studies  ) done?

Similar to, say, these classic accounts:

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/jenner-tests-smallpox-vaccine#:~:text=On May 14%2C 1796%2C Jenner,The vaccine was a success.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200928-how-the-first-vaccine-was-born

A while back on another forum I posted:

Please help find an earlier discussion on the Title topic as I'd rather post in that thread!

Can't recall my exact words ... but something along the lines of:

====

Cold/flu lab study for students (as in a Univ. campus). You sign up to get enrolled into a study where researchers DELIBERATELY swab you (in nose) with a common cold / flu virus.

You spend a few days in a lab where your symptoms -- if any -- are monitored.

Something like this -- https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/40/9/1263/370417 

You are paid to participate but -- unlike above -- students were DELIBERATELY infected.

I recall a few local or national TV spots of studies like this -- many years ago -- that ran the story. Can't find any info on such studies anywhere on the Interwebs! 

=============

Yeah .. I've went thru most to the Google and DuckDuckGo search hits like the NIH link you noted.

Is it me who alone who is going crazy in assuming:

(1) researchers have isolated pathogens KNOWN to cause pathology (viruses, bacteria, fungi, etc)

(2) pathogens are further incubated and saved (cold storage, growth media) for later use (perhaps like vaccines made from weakened pathogens)

(3) that these pathogens are purchasable and orderable to universities and academia like, e.g. Charles River rodents

(4) that animal or human experiments are not routinely done for ailments like the common cold

Maybe a bit like:

https://www.cmu.edu/common-cold-project/british-cold-study/index.html

https://franklin.library.upenn.edu/catalog/FRANKLIN_9977339643303681

Keywords: BCS, British Common Cold Study, The Common Cold Project

Alan, do you have the full PDF of any of these papers?

EDIT:

Whoa, Nelly! It seems like that place down the street from some of you: Pittsburgh Cold Study 1/2:

https://www.cmu.edu/common-cold-project/pittsburgh-cold-study-1/index.html

Looking for all known CONTROL OF and CONTROLLED applications of the big 4.

So you may say, for electromagnetism, we can create and control it with batteries, generators, capacitors, semiconductors etc.