Bazil_SW

17 minutes ago, studiot said:

joigus actually said colour charges not changes.

Here is a short extract from nobel physicist Frank Wilczek recent book, Fundamentals, ten key to reality.

So he did, my bad.  Thanks for the screen grab. 

ok, fair enough, thanks for the quick reply!

What did you mean by "colour changes"?

Hi all,

The other day I was thinking about the electromagnetic spectrum and Nikola Tesla's famous quote.... 

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.” 

Reply from the Ironbridge demolition company....

"

I’ve been sent the email you sent our enquiries address, regarding the object falling onto your drive on the evening of 17^th July.

Whilst I’ll raise this issue with the demolition team at the Ironbridge power station, as far as I’m aware no works were being undertaken on this date which could have been responsible for the debris, indeed all works cease by 13.00 on a Saturday.

Hope you mange to solve this mystery.

Regards,"

It looks the Iron Bridge power plant is / was being demolished around that time (and still) so I've asked the company running it if anything happened on the 17th July 2020.

As another angle, does anyone know how I could get the material radio carbon dated?  I've tried a few private labs and they say they only take work from recognised institutions....

1 hour ago, studiot said:

Just look around Google.

Here are a couple of stills

700 × 394

 

 

Wow, I'll be checking for power plant chimneys in / near the corridor definitely!

14 hours ago, studiot said:

I don't think this object can have fallen from space.

The chem analysis shows an amazing % carbon so it did not travel very fast through the atmousphere or it would have burned up.

Your comment on the carbon burn up is reflected elsewhere also (Treasurenet post).  From the video and taking some measurements outside, I estimate the fireball object object (term used in the very literal sense!) was travelling ~8 mph by the time it was in our frame.  That's also corroborated by the timestamp on the other CCTV footage which was 0.1 miles away assuming both our timestamps are/were set from the internet (22:09:52 & 22:10:35).

Something from an industrial accident I'd consider and did a search, but as mentioned, companies may not report them, or at least it may not make the news / be available online.  I don't live 'near' anything that industrial, but Birmingham is very industrial - without giving away too much about where I live, the attached image would be my estimated 'corridor'.  I'll scour the maps and do some research! https://i.imgur.com/JmWyib0.jpg

9 hours ago, studiot said:

dunno about an actual explosion, stacks and chimneys are(used to be ?) cleaned by burning off sooty deposits.
hence the night time display of sparks I referred to.
The updraft from a powerful stack can carry particles quite some distance.

Do you have a link to a video?

3 hours ago, TheVat said:

I'm surprised a geosciences department at a university would not take an interest.   Sounds like a great project for a professor to assign some graduate students to assist with.   

The photos/description of the pieces doesn't seem a good fit with remnants of an artificial satellite.   Given the trajectory, the theory of volcanic ejecta from Iceland seems worth pursuing,  and I would imagine a vulcanologist at someplace like U. of Hawaii-Manoa or     Observatoire de Physique du Globe de Clermont-Ferrand would be equipped to do an analysis.   

2 hours ago, zapatos said:

Just trying to get a complete picture here...

Do you know it fell on the concrete or did you just collect it from there? For example, were there any impact marks on the drive?

I don't know enough about things that fall from space but are they hot enough to melt some of what they land on? That's where I was wondering if what you found picked up the diatoms by fusing with something on the ground either from the heat or the impact.

No worries, I'm happy to share it all and answer any questions.

Yes for sure I know it did - the answer is probably best served by looking at some reports I've put together over the last year or so (linked on dropbox, you might need to copy and paste them into the address bar it did not work in preview mode for some reason):

3 hours ago, studiot said:

Firstly thank you for coming back and telling us what is going on. +1

I couldn't find any reference to these 'diatoms' in the petrological report you linked to. ?

If there are biological remnents included the question of how they got there is a good one.

On Earth, microorganisms will start to grow on cooled pyroclastic material (old lava).
Obviously some will overlay the old eruptive/outflow site.
So in a later eruption some of this will be blasted skywards, rather than remelted.
thus offering a viable mechanism.

I'm not saying this is what happened, just that it should be considered.

All suggestions welcome!

The petrographic report was for the material only, I didn't mention about the biological structures until after when I had a video call to discuss the results - from experience it's better not to mention until after, if at all.

The SEM images of the biological structures were taken at MRI Colombo (Sri Lanka), in Nov 2020, as I sent 2 fragments to the same team that did the initial work up on the Polonnaruwa stones that fell in Dec 2012.  Sadly he was only able to get a few SEM images from fresh fracture faces, most of which are included in this forum already, before he was moved to head up the Covid testing lab as it hit hard and continues to.  His initial reaction was that what we were seeing looked similar.  That said, after analysis, the Polonnaruwa material has many characteristics akin to known meteorites, but mine does not appear to.  I have seen various biological structures (diatoms, and filamentous etc) on fresh fractures under an optical microscope too.

1 hour ago, zapatos said:

Is it possible this material is the amalgamation of whatever fell plus whatever terrestrial material it landed on?

One fragment fell on a concrete drive (clean, i.e. not cover in moss etc) and was collected the next morning, not exposed to rain or moisture as it was dry and warm all evening - this is one of the two I sent to Sri Lanka for the study of the structures inside. (Fragment #1 image OP). 

The others were found resting on the top soil in the garden aligned to where they fell, so they had soil on the surface but I cleaned them up.   Fragment #14 was the other of the two I sent to Sri Lanka: F #14  (hosted on imgur)

Sadly the Natural History Museam (London) were not able to further this investigation, so it has stalled and I think it's as far as I can take it.

I'd like to preface my reasoning for pursuing it even this far, with a series of logical statements:

- did the material fall from the sky = YES
- is it unusual and have strange surface features = YES
- did it fall at the start the Perseids shower (caused by the debris field of comet Swift-Tuttle) = YES
- are there any confirmed cometary meteorites in the collections = NO
- does the material contain microbiology = YES apparently undamaged diatoms and other structures are embedded deep inside the fragments and within the material matrix
- has this happened before = YES, reference Polonnaruwa stones 2012 (though these findings are not universally accepted)

The investigations to date (SEM, EDX, EDX & XRPD, EDX & petrographic) were not able identify characteristics akin to existing meteorites, nor any of the expected characteristics of meteoritic materials, but it still remains unidentified. I have not been able to confirm the age or origin of the material by analysis such as Triple Oxygen Isotope, Cosmic Ray Exposure (as these are highly specialized), or even if it has a 'terrestrial' age by carbon dating. The prevailing theme is that that the material is anthropogenic, and possibly the remnents of an artificial satellite that have fallen back to earth. That might explain the:

- observable differences between adjoining fragments (perhaps different components?)
- some of the odd biological looking structures found on the outside (perhaps something collected from the atmosphere?)

However that does not answer anything relating to the intact biologicial structures found inside the material.

The anonymized petrographic report is uploaded in post #16 here: Treasurenet Forum Post, because there is no capacity to add more files to this post.

To be clear, I'm not claiming that this material is one thing or another, instead putting it, and what I have found, out there for posterity and open discussion.

On 8/27/2021 at 11:31 AM, studiot said:

 

Thank you for this useful information.

I am not doubting you, just trying to establish a few facts.

I am not a volcanologist or meteorologist, my main knowledge of geology is engineering geology and geophysics.

 

You have indicated that experts you have approaced have been lukewarm in their interest.
A pity.

 

I have a suggestion.

Dr Ian Stewart presented a BBC series called Earth The power of the Planet in the early 2000s.

He included a section where he was taken into the Australian Outback by an expert meteoroligist to hunt for meteor fragments and another section on volcanology.

 

I suggest you approach him as he will either have a personal interest in your story or the contacts with those who will.
Perhaps even in the TV industry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_Stewart_(geologist)

@Bazil_SW

Here is a paper on the 2010 eruption in Iceland.

Ejecta certainly reached Brum and further.

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep00572

I haven't found any such papers on the 2021 eruption.  It's probably too early for papers on this yet and it was much smaller and gentler anyway.

Thanks for the suggestion and paper.  Iain pointed me to the NHM. 

10 hours ago, studiot said:

@Bazil_SW

I looked at you two videos but could not determine very much.

In particular I could not determine the trajectory of your object.

Did you actually see it fall ?

(Some of the objects in the article I linked to were actually witnessed 'dropping out of the sky)

Can you say if it fell more or less straight down or if it came in at some flat trajectory angle or what ?

We had both bay windows open in the bedroom and just after we'd gone to bed we heard an odd moderately loud noise that lasted 3-4s and had pronounced Doppler shift. It was a warbling whine with an underlying hum, like machinery or electricity discharging rapidly.  We could tell it was in the air rather than on the road outside.

Something I forgot in the OP (there's so much!) was some oddities in a surface pocket of a fragment found in the garden.

They glinted in the light, at first I thought they were gold, but when I extracted them they structurally  lost shape.  SEM and EDX composition results show they're possibly biological?  Maybe interesting that there's no detectable nitrogen here either.

Hello All,

----------------------------------------------------

 

Close up of some surface crystals and a really odd feature, not seen to change over time

 

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, joigus said:

Number-one step should be dating the rock, I think.

For dating rocks in the order of billions y.o. a trusted method is based on ratios U/Pb in zircon crystals. If the rock is a meteoroid, it should be as old as the solar system.

https://www.amnh.org/learn-teach/curriculum-collections/earth-inside-and-out/zircon-chronology-dating-the-oldest-material-on-earth

Yes I'm leaning that way.  I'll send the 2 Drs mentioned in the article an email, but again it sounds like a very specialized process, rather than something that can be bought 'over-the-counter'.  I'm hoping to get a radiocarbon dating, as more the conventional method, but even that is proving difficult, and whilst it might not work for very old stuff, if they can get a date from it at all, that tells me something (that it's almost certainly of terrestrial origin).  

2 minutes ago, studiot said:

We try to be helpful and encourage genuine members.

 

You say Birmingham ?

I don't know if there was any connection to this event

 

Winchcombe is not far from Bham.

Aye, Birmingham, UK.  That was a very interesting event but it took place about 7 months later.  Relatively speaking, it was an 'easy' win for the experts because the fireball was captured by a lot of cameras (UK Mon and general 'civilians') and pieces were found quickly afterwards and 'easily' confirmed as meteoritic chondrite, ableit a rare type - it ticked all the boxes.  The difficulty I've had, is my stuff doesn't! 

This team have an interesting piece of it (www.eaaro.org.uk) and when I spoke to their director about a month ago, he was really keen to investigate a chunk of my material, but I've not heard back since.

16 hours ago, studiot said:

Here is an interesting discussion about the effect of entry angle.

It is intended for rocket capsules, but also discusses meteor(ites).

 

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/cami/library/online_libraries/aerospace_medicine/tutorial/media/iii.4.1.7_returning_from_space.pdf

 

@Bazil_SW

I see you are a new member of 7 hours standing. Welcome.

Just to warn you that new members are allowed only 5 posts in the first 24 hours.

This is nothing personal, just a very effective measure against spammers who try to flood sites like this with junk.

After 24 hours the restriction ends.

 

If you really need to say something before that the private message system can be used.

Yes, I hit the limit! Thanks for sharing and the shout out.  I've not read it all yet, but I remember the over / undershoot element from playing Frontier Elite on my Amiga 600 in the 90s 😂

15 hours ago, zapatos said:

Has anyone at all suggested it is a meteorite other than you? Even after the analysis?

The answer to that is nuanced.  I don't plan to name drop, but yes since very early on I've been liaising with a few retired Professors in the fields of panspermia, astro and microbiology, and based on:

•  the circumstances of its arrival and that UK Mon also link 2 other fireball sightings to my report (so there is corroborating evidence that something fell from the sky that night)
•  the unusual nature of the material (in particular its structure and low density) which is similar to material previously studied by those people and demonstrated (but not widely accepted) to be extraterrestrial, likely cometary, in nature
•  surface features which could suggest 'collected' biological structures from the atmosphere, also previously studied by those people
•  and what has been found inside, also similar to that studied previously by those people and demonstrated (but not widely accepted) to be extraterrestrial
   

Case closed then! .... If only that explanation satisfied the evidence.  Most of them only saw pictures not the actual stuff, so it would be easy to say, so really that sentance should read "the reply is always either" 😉 .  And that does not explain the oddities observed in the pictures in this thread

That's right, I've kept the (possible) fossils & biology out of the discussions with the meteorite experts, the Natural History Museum (London), and anyone else I've approached about the 'nature' of the material, and believe you me I have approached a lot of people over the last year, from all over the world.  The answer is always either: 'it's slag' or 'that's interesting, but not a meteorite, probably some sort of industrial waste', or some variant on that theme, so I have paid for several analyses myself to try and better understand the material.

To date,

- SEM study at Warwick Uni to get an overall feel for the material's elemental composition at the surface (and to confirm several of the larger pieces were actually the same thing).  Interestingly they took SEM and EDX results for some diatoms on the inside of a smooth feature which appears to consist of Kyanite & Muscovite (both metormorphic assemblies).  It may be interesting to note that the diatoms do not contain (measureable) amounts of Nitrogen:

- Bulk composition by EDX and XRPD as below:

- Thin slice petrographic analysis: short version is, the material has some meteoritic characteristics though there is always a 'but' when compared to existing carbonaceous chondrites (and others) as it's not comparable.  They could not conclude what it actually is, industrial waste or otherwise.  Interestingly though it fell at the start of the Perseids shower (which caused by the debris field of comet Switf-Tuttle) and there are no confirmed cometary meteorites in the collection to compare it - at least that has been one of my arguments.  That and the fact it fell out of the sky!

Since I have gotten little traction with the materials side of it, I thought I would approach it from the other (biology) side, hence this post.

😂 Aye, I know, I was more than a little alarmed when I started studying it and the glassy sphere thing burst!

I also suspect the biological structures on the outside were collected 'on the way in' and have discussed the possibility with some local (retired) Professors from Sheffield & Cardiff who researched biological structures in the upper atmosphere.

Yes, I remember the Allan Hills announcements in the 90s and the controversy it caused, certainly one of the structures I've found inside looks very similar.  I'm also aware of the Polonnaruwa stones that fell in Sri Lanka 2012 and the (controversial) findings there. 

I've really struggled to get the materials investigated by any meteorite or biology experts because it does not look like a typical meteorite, do you know who I could approach about it? 

Hello all,

I live in Birmingham, UK.  At 10pm on 17th July 2020 an aerial fireball object fell from the sky, broke apart near our house, and showered rocky fragments on the garden and drive.   We heard it happen and 2 CCTV caught it.  I've been finding more pieces since, and have had quite a bit of analysis done on it, including SEM & EDX, petrographic, and bulk composition, and still don't know what the material is!  

Can anyone weigh in what the odd biological structures are that I'm seeing on/inside some peices, several images below?

I have loads more details to share if anyone wants more!

Any help is greatly appriciated.

Cheers!

------------------------------------------------------------------

Some more general information for context

CCTV video hosted on imgur.  Ours slowed: https://i.imgur.com/WRx4eno.mp4, the other from 0.1 miles away captures a reflection of the fireball in the sky: https://i.imgur.com/21GvZaD.mp4

Composit image of the differences per frame of our CCTV shows the object breaking apart:

The object partially assembled:



------------------------------------------------------------------

Really Odd Surface Features

One particular fragment that was seen to bounce off the house in the footage was found the next morning (<12hrs later), still smelt burnt like hot road tar, and was not exposed to water/rain/noistures, has really odd features on the surface, does any know what these are?

- the 'critters' (for want of a better word!) with appendiges- also numerous and apparently 'splattered', mashed, or burst open, on the surface and in the pockets?

- the white mushroom-like structures - numerous on the surface and about ~0.2mm dia.

- the glassy spheres with longitudinal ridges that have been seen to 'burst' open -  numerous on the surface

+

------------------------------------------------------------------

Large Structure

Recently I found a largish piece about 1.5" across, that has an odd biological looking structure on it, which is rubbery and bendy in texture, and has been seen to change over time, images attached,  Any ides what this is?



------------------------------------------------------------------

The material also contains (apparently) embedded microbiology, such as diatoms and others, on fresh fracture faces, a few of many images attached.  Unfortunately the images are not great quality.  This is the fragment found on the drive the next morning.




Diatoms:


 

Ring-like structure:

+

Filamentious structure:

Others (acritarchs?):