h20
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Posts posted by h20
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6 minutes ago, Strange said:
OK. We will ignore the fact that I worked on patents for a couple of decades.
Yes, things like "inventive step" and "obvious" are subjective and it can be quite hard to persuade the examiner that a patent really is inventive.
You are correct, I am not that familiar with Swedish patent law. But I assume that if you were to develop a product based on this idea (as you stated in your first post) you would want to patent it in, potentially, the largest markets (e.g. the USA).
You are, obviously, correct that it is not possible to patent an idea or (in most countries) a piece of software. However, it is possible in principle to patent the sort of thing you talked about in your first post: a cloud-connected valve and acoustic-flow measurement system. You even posted a photo of a prototype device. That falls squarely in the domain of things that are patentable.
Why would i you ignorant!
People in this post must watch this:
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10 minutes ago, Strange said:
There might be objections that it is not inventive enough (one of the criteria) but a good patent agent should be able to get round that.
First patent legal framework is not uniform across the world and its economic areas, second you dont know what you are talking about, "inventive enough" is a subjective argument ...
So just as a little hint, this is what is not patentable in sweden:
According to the Patents Act, an invention cannot only constitute:
- a discovery, scientific theory or mathematical method,
- an aesthetic creation,
- a scheme, rule or method for performing a mental act, playing a game or doing business, or a computer program,
- a presentation of information,
- a procedure for surgical or therapeutic treatment, or diagnosis, to be practised on humans or animals.
5 minutes ago, h20 said:First patent legal framework is not uniform across the world and its economic areas, second you dont know what you are talking about, "inventive enough" is a subjective argument ...
So just as a little hint, this is what is not patentable in sweden:
According to the Patents Act, an invention cannot only constitute:
- a discovery, scientific theory or mathematical method,
- an aesthetic creation,
- a scheme, rule or method for performing a mental act, playing a game or doing business, or a computer program,
- a presentation of information,
- a procedure for surgical or therapeutic treatment, or diagnosis, to be practised on humans or animals.
But again someone with ignorance in the neural network field would not see any break through in this, and would only see a man with stick, fooling himself he is so proud he discredited an idea, but is its lack of understanding giving him a false thought of confidence when he talks. And you sound VERY confident to not even have looked at the inners of the idea, or by other means not even knowing wat a neural network is!
Here you go:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01413870
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5 minutes ago, Strange said:
That is a pretty cool idea. It is shame you have now lost the chance patent it!
It cannot be patented
5 minutes ago, Strange said:That is a pretty cool idea. It is shame you have now lost the chance patent it!
Your incompetence is so extended that you dont see that the value in this idea is not the idea itself is the training of the neural network, hence a brain with no training is just meat. You should train a bit more...
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11 hours ago, MigL said:
That's too bad.
I had an idea that the system could be adapted to a sensor which attaches to water pipes, and connects through wi-fi to an app running on your computer or phone. The app would warn you of excessive water flow, indicating a leak or bad valve, on that particular pipe, or even the main.Had a bad flapper valve on the toilet in the basement, by the laundry room. The only time I'm down there is to do laundry, so the water is always running, and I didn't hear the toilet running on for months. Only noticed something was wrong when the $725 bill came.
Yes, thats one of the applications for it, this proof of concepts makes use of the man with the stick principle:
https://www.lep.co.uk/business/meet-leak-detectors-and-their-wooden-listening-stick-656032
and takes it next level with artificial intelligence and a wide training set for a neural network.
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19 hours ago, Strange said:
Your first warning was in GREEN.
You may find when trying to develop and market a new product that you are often challenged on the technical, marketing, financial and other aspects of your business. Especially by people you need to help you (e.g. investors). You might want to think about how you would react to such challenges when they happen. Would potential investors be impressed by an angry tirade in response to a comment on your plans? Would they be more or less willing to invest if you make false statements?
Maybe you need to find a forum more suited to your temperament and goals. There is generally little discussion of product or business development here. And we do require people to obey the rules, especially the one about being civil.
Again, WHO is talking about a PRODUCT?, i am talking about an idea and its applications in real life, during the post you turn it into a product making statements on how hard sevaral aspects would be to implement, fine with me, but then dont complain if i talk about product related issues... and start banning conversations.
Put it this way is not the same talking about the idea on how useful a real levitating board would be than actually discussing all the problems related to its manufacture. I dont see you getting the point.
My attitude is aligned with your moderators behaviour and incompetence. must watch this video to understand how i feel talking to them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxuxJpWnicU
Any way true this is not the correct forum to talk about ideas that might endup being a product, fine with me.
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12 minutes ago, Phi for All said:!
Moderator Note
I gave you a friendly green reminder why this would be against the rules. You turned it into both a joke and a rant on censorship. Do you argue loudly with the librarian when he asks you to be quiet?
Never mind answering that. You've been reminded of the rules you agreed to when you joined. Have a great day.
that comment its just
vexatiousand weird, what are you talking about a library, what kind of moderator are you? You should "moderate" not put petrol on a fire!
I think you overreacted by highlighting my post in Red upfront, not a good quality for an moderator to have, you should temper yourself and think before you act.
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3 minutes ago, Strange said:
Maybe you should look up the definition of "rules" as well. You agreed to several when you joined. Now you are complaining about them.
I didnt inflict any rule, i made a sarcastic comment when YOU where giving the initial idea the prospect of a company.... honestly i think this is censorship or applying an absurd rule when the post was undersgoing a good conversation
Dumb laws, also called weird laws, strange laws, futile laws, or unnecessary laws, are laws that are perceived to be useless, humorous or obsolete, i.e. no longer applicable (in regard to current culture or modern law). A number of books and websites purport to list dumb laws. These are in many cases based on misunderstandings, exaggerations or outright fabrications.
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10 minutes ago, Phi for All said:
Learn what censorship is.
!Moderator Note
DON'T START A POST ABOUT FUNDRAISING FOR YOUR IDEA.
Its a joke, so i am starting to get worried you are not a bot, so its even more disturbing, i would imagine a bot not understanding jokes but ok you dont either..
Ok, so its not an "idea", and i am not looking for fundraising, did you read the title of the post and all my comments beside the last... can you read?
DEFINITION OF CENSORSHIP
Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient."[2][3][4] Censorship can be conducted by governments,[5] private institutions, and other controlling bodies.
Governments[5] and private organizations may engage in censorship. Other groups or institutions may propose and petition for censorship.[6] When an individual such as an author or other creator engages in censorship of their own works or speech, it is referred to as self-censorship. General censorship occurs in a variety of different media, including speech, books, music, films, and other arts, the press, radio, television, and the Internet for a variety of claimed reasons including national security, to control obscenity, child pornography, and hate speech, to protect children or other vulnerable groups, to promote or restrict political or religious views, and to prevent slander and libel.
Do you think my post fits into any of those?
And i would understand if i actually posted a fund raising post, but i didnt
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Just now, Phi for All said:!
Moderator Note
Not here! We don't allow advertising of any kind. Please find a better site to promote your new business. Use us for science discussion only, please.
Why are you censoring my post? the conversation led to this point and i wasnt the one giving my idea the orientation of business, review your bot its doing weird things!
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6 minutes ago, Strange said:
So, effectively, you are using "portable" to denote low cost, ease of use, simple installation, etc.
Well, good luck. It is not always easy developing and marketing a new product but it should be valuable experience.
You are right! I think i need a new post asking where to get funding for ideas
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23 minutes ago, Strange said:
OK. I hadn't looked in that much detail.
I was going to suggest that your selling point could be very low cost, to open up a wider range of applications.
Portable, though? Where do you see that being used? (Not being negative, genuinely curious!)
We are not focusing the point here.
There are two options when it comes to developing new tecnologies.
1 - New important and crucial use cases force development of new tecnologies.
2 - New available tecnologies encourage new use cases that nobody ever thought might exist or even make any sense.I will put an example though, in the US and Europe, the pattern on how elderly people use their water taps in houses is a pre-indicator of demetia or Alzheimer, so if a person leaves its tap running all night or does not use it at all indicates mental health problems, you can imagine if we glue this data in the cloud many things are there to be explored.
The fact of it having to be portable is otherwise the cost of installation will not make the device so attractive.
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52 minutes ago, Bufofrog said:
Do you know the price and power consumtion of those devices? Not suitable for portable iot applications...
28 minutes ago, Strange said:https://patents.justia.com/patent/20150082911
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20050011278
There were hundreds more results, some probably duplicates, so the concept is not novel. You would need to think of something to make a product like this competitive (and avoid infringing any existing patents).
None of them apply, we do not genrate a sound and then measure, we listen to the sound of the pipe and then infere ...
We are not focusing the point here.
There are two options when it comes to developing new tecnologies.
1 - New important and crucial use cases force development of new tecnologies.
2 - New available tecnologies encourage new use cases that nobody ever thought might exist or even make any sense.
So my point is, this is a new way of measuring flow through pipes, it might or might not have its place.
As always for me this technology has enhancement at the consumption of the device, a lot cheaper and non invasive, which might open new use cases or not.
Bear in mind we are in the Big-Data era, so you might get a glance of were things are going, we want data no matter what(more data = more value), so this might be a cheap way of pputting one kind of data on the cloud...
Now its up to clever people to find what to do with that data!0 -
On 8/7/2020 at 6:03 PM, Sensei said:
Cool nothing exists yet
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Hi guys, i am new to this website.
After reading the kind of subjects i decided to write my own post.
As the title says i have had an idea of connecting a valve directly to the cloud, so you can command and read data from it using MQTT/API, no mistery there.
I will explain a bit about how i got here.
I am a professional embedded developer, in my own time we have developed an algorithm that detects the flow of water just by listening to the sound it makes on pipes using Machine Learning(this is the really cool part).
So far so good we actually can detect if there is flow and give a quantity of the instantanious flow with a max error of 10%, just by attaching a simple microphone to the pipe, sounds crazy but it works.
The thing is that if we could connect our device to a cheap valve we would convert a 5$ valve into a valve that can detect open/close, flow/noFlow and the amount of flow.
Given that i have no experience as a product manager i ask the following:
Does any of you see this as a useful product?
I have attached a picture of an initial proofs of concepts0
Valve connected to the cloud make sense?
in Engineering
Posted · Edited by h20
Hi studiot, glad we can talk specifics.
Just a note on the current state-of-the-Art regarding microcontrollers and edge computing.
You should take a look at TensorFlow + uTensor its what we have used and it allows a well trained neural network to run on a 250 K of RAM processor:
https://os.mbed.com/blog/entry/uTensor-and-Tensor-Flow-Announcement/
No calibration, no fft measurements(at least not for training), just plain 1 Dimensional data.
The regular approach on teaching a neural network to hear sound is actually to make it a spectrogram "picture" and then applying image recognition over that "picture".
Science Paper
We dont follow this approach, we just pass a liner vector of raw sound data to a trained neural network. Normally you were not able to just inyect raw data to a neural network, at least not into a microcontroller.
See sometimes things are simpler than they seem, we have designed an algorithm named: Wait-a-Minute.
The key is not how to evaluate that data but when, thats the key.
Imagine you tell an old man to listen to the pipes behind a wall and keep asking him: 'Hear anything?' he will be able to tell you yes or no most of the time, but if a truck passes by he will tell you : Wait-a-Minute...