ProximaCentauri

So no way the early universe in its hot, dense state at the very moment of the (supposed) Big Bang could have been infinite at a quantum level? (Eternal) inflation caused infinite expansion? Can you please elaborate? I think the universe has either always been infinite in extent at all sizes or it has not. I have no scientific evidence in favour of one model over the other. I'm just a lay person with an interest in cosmology, but I trust wizard mathematicians like Penrose who have shifted in their views from believing in the standard Big Bang cosmological model and come up with something which is far superior, the Conformal Cyclic Cosmology (CCC). CCC is treated with ridicule by the herd, and Penrose is treated like a heretic in the scientific community for dissenting from the mainstream almost religious-like orthodoxy - since he no longer bows down to the standard cosmological model which places the Big Bang as the beginning of this universe - with the question of what came before deemed a 'silly question to ask'. I saw a video in which Sean Carroll became very upset - you could see from the look on his face - when Penrose basically dared to rubbish inflation for the absurd idea it is. He was denounced of course, as you may expect, by an emotional Carroll committed to the standard model orthodoxy. I always pay more attention to the dissenters who once were with the herd and held the mainstream consensus. Because they're usually on to something. Though I am not a mathematician and will not pretend to understand any of the maths behind CCC , but I trust someone like Penrose when he says he never liked inflation and that the standard model is wrong. So this is why I believe in the cyclic universe or CCC model which says that the universe is not only infinite in extent and in its expansion, but is eternal - there will never be an end to the universe ; there will never be a final 'cycle'. And there was never a first one, either - which is hard to get our heads around, but the universe doesn't care about that. Not being able to understand how the universe could have had no beginning (or rather how there could have been no first cycle) won't make the universe change to suit what we would rather want just so it's easier for us to understand.

Penrose rejects the idea of inflation. I remember him saying during an interview "When inflation was first proposed [by Guth], I thought 'oh this thing isn't going to last five minutes!" and he went on to say that he is basically dumbfounded that so many have bought into inflation. The Cyclic universe model does not allow for inflation (Penrose's conformal cyclic cosmology model, anyway). Do you consider this to be psuedoscience, because it doesn't allow inflation? Also, he states there would never have been a first universe or first cycle and there will never be a final one. The cycle is infinite and eternal in both directions of time. This what the cyclic models tell us about the universe and they make much more scientific sense than the universe just coming about due to a quantum fluctuation in a vacuous state. This is of course my opinion and I accept that it is a dissenting one from the herd.

Two cosmological models involving the universe as never having had a beginning and never having an end (eternal), and having no boundaries (infinite) are really interesting me: The Cyclic universe in which the universe has always been (for an infinite amount of time into the past) and always will (for an infinite time into the future) go through cycles of massive expansion and then contraction. Our Big Bang being the last bounce back from the previous contraction and the cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR) the result of the rapid expansion from the last epoch. The universe of dynamical equilibrium. The universe is not expanding. Redshift has been misunderstood - it is not down to the Doppler effect and Hubble himself never even stated that this was so, and treated that idea with skepticism/caution. The universe never had a beginning, it has always existed and always will (eternal) and is infinite in extent. To me these models are more attractive because the Big Bang model I think was initially pushed by a Catholic priest (Lemaitre) so as to conveniently have the universe as having had a beginning and therefore very easy to argue that in order for there to be a beginning there would have had to have been a creator. I think big bang cosmological model was initiated to ensure a way to keep religious dogma within the scientific arena. What are other people's thoughts on these two cosmological models? Has anyone seen any good mathematics to back them up? I think the Big Bang model is coming under more and more scrutiny these days - and rightly so. We don't want to have that one particular model become like a religious orthodoxy!