13mh13

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

!

Moderator Note

BTW, you should look up what those words mean. You've never been "censored" here, and staff doesn't "delete" anything. 

We throw posts in the Trash, or we hide duplications, but we don't delete. What you've written is all still visible. 

BTW, the site has been around long enough to recognize when someone can't support their arguments, and falls back on ad hominem and attacking those offering reasoned refutations, or the staff enforcing the rules. It's a pretty transparent tactic.

 

 

Never been "censored" surely you jest, sir. Have a look at my Profile About Me. Specifically the "Suspended" screen capture.

Quote

"BTW, the site has been around long enough to recognize when someone can't support their arguments, and falls back on ad hominem and attacking those offering reasoned refutations, or the staff enforcing the rules. It's a pretty transparent tactic."

Well, if you think the TACTICAL troll cares about any of that, the PUBLIC HUMILIATION is YOURS, toots.

Since 13mh13's posts are heavily censored and moderated, it seems prudent that some remarks be presented in this '"Suggestion" subforum....

  23 hours ago, Strange said:

!

Moderator Note

1. This is a science forum, so that is never a valid argument.

2. Turn down the attitude or you will be taking another break. 

 

1. Oh, ok.

2. Do as necessary per your authoratorship (= job description) requires. 

3. Realize Newton's 3rd applies : 

So, e.g., there may be a gazillion Reddit trolls with a gazillion IP addresses and a gazillion SF account, hungry for a little action. Everyone's home these days ... bored to tears ... just give us a 'cuse.

Also, please note:

 I HTML-capture and screen-capture every scienceforum thread I post in, because of the Mods' massive censorship and deletions. And those captures are ... ahem ... already posted elsewheres in the Interweb, permanently embarrassing this forum, ad infinitum. Again, you've gotta have respect for Issac and classical mechanics.

Thanks for your attention!

22 hours ago, Strange said:

!

Moderator Note

1. This is a science forum, so that is never a valid argument.

2. Turn down the attitude or you will be taking another break. 

 

1. Oh, ok.

2. Do as necessary per your authoratorship (= job description) requires. 

3. Realize Newton's 3rd applies : 

So, e.g., there may be a gazillion Reddit trolls with a gazillion IP addresses and a gazillion SF account, hungry for a little action. Everyone's home these days ... bored to tears ... just give us a 'cuse.

BTW: I HTML-capture and screen-capture every scienceforum thread I post in, because of the Mods' massive censorship and deletions. And those captures are ... ahem ... already posted elsewheres in the Interweb, permanently embarrassing this forum, ad infinitum. Again, you've gotta have respect for Issac and classical mechanics.

All that said, and while I've got the floor, lemme just add these topical links to the topic of the OP:

https://mbio.asm.org/content/4/5/e00598-13

http://www.virology.ws/2013/09/06/how-many-viruses-on-earth/

2 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Without clicking, I'm going to assume that's enough, targeted, to contaminate all 7 billion of us...but not contaminate the entire Earth enough to infect everyone.

+ 1 though for the snapshot, and especially for calling it sensational.

No ... not even close  ...not according to the vlogger (who is a scientist: Phil Mason).

Would you please do me a favor. Remove your +1, and either replace w/ -1 or NOTHING. 

That social media LIKE/UNLIKE is not very "scientific" now, is it, toots? And neither is your attitude of not clicking thru video to INVESTIGATE.

------ BTW ----------------

A week ago, several of my in-line posts were deleted by Mods because many of you found them EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE. 

Well, for the sake of "science" -- for what THAT'S worth at the putatively scientific forum, SF -- the topic of URINATING (pissing) on ones body parts (or gloves) to sterilize them .... in case you were outta Purell... needs to be resurrected from the mode-deleted posts.

So where's the evidence for Pee-u-rell, you ask ....

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2510466

Actually, it's the ammonium salts....fresh outta the bladder being ideal. Get that pH into an anti-viral zone. 

5 hours ago, 13mh13 said:

Why is the question "How many virus(es) - -corona , etc -- does it take cause infection" so across-the-board with responses?

https://www.quora.com/How-many-individual-virus-are-needed-to-start-an-infection-Will-1-flu-virus-be-enough-to-make-you-sick-or-do-you-need-many-more-than-that

But it does not prevent sensationalist science  vloggers from taking stabs...

Why is the question "How many virus(es) - -corona , etc -- does it take cause infection" so across-the-board with responses?

https://www.quora.com/How-many-individual-virus-are-needed-to-start-an-infection-Will-1-flu-virus-be-enough-to-make-you-sick-or-do-you-need-many-more-than-that

1 hour ago, studiot said:

This response alone would be enough to put you on most people's ignore list.

 

Oh ... okay.

3 hours ago, iNow said:

Not primates, though... and that was YOUR OWN criteria from the OP:

Sorry ... no. READ THE OP. But I fully  understand your typical last-word SMARTY PANTS mentality, which is TYPICAL of science and skeptic forums.

 But I gave you a an UPVOTE anyway b/c of your BBC link. Now where is my DOWNVOTE?

5 hours ago, studiot said:

Most viruses are marine ? please explain further?

Four reasons:

(1) More surface area of Earth is H2O than air. And most lifeforms are in that environment. DUH!!!!!!!!!!

(2) Viruses don't survive long in air, esp. under sunlight. DUH!!!!!!!!!!!

(3) bacteriophages, bacteriophages, bacteriophages!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_bacteriophage

"Viruses have an estimated abundance of 10^30 in the ocean, or between 1 and 100,000x10^6 per millilitre."

(4) Because I said so.

9 hours ago, iNow said:

They tend more often to be epidemics than pandemics since most nonhuman primates lack the ability to cross the ocean. 

But many animals (including mammals) are MARINE. And most of the viruses on the planet are MARINE. And most of the viral infections are bacteria-based (which fits my non-human criteria). 

Dear "Biology Experts" and everyone else. How're y'all doin'? Been away ... I was in the hole for while for ... uh .. offensive behavior. 

But all that aside ... here's an easy, topical query I'm sure many of you "Experts" can answer with certainty ...

Where is info, if any, on animal (non-human) pandemics (or epidemics)? Don't bring up bat white nose syndrome, but you may bring up bees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder).

Hell, you can even bring in plant pandemics (blights, etc, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blight).

But large mammals -- and esp. primates -- is the cash cow here, folks.

3 hours ago, CharonY said:

Sorry genetics and evolution does not work like that and I suggest opening up a new thread if you want to discuss that further (we have hijacked quite a bit already).

==Well, honestly YOU led the thread in all sorts of OT direction. And, now, simply b/c you don't have your usual SMUG "BIOLOGY EXPERT"  response, you want claim hijacking?? Really?!!  YOU ARE A TYPICAL FORUM MODERATOR. 

37 minutes ago, CharonY said:

That is not the how the terminology is usually used. The gene pool for humans has precisely the same age.

Hmmm.. .well, there maybe something like a genetic "memory" of disease. The gene pool may be the same age, as you claim,  but if the species hasn't encountered the same (self-immunized) disease over many generations, then best to delete that never-used gene from memory. Better to fill genome with more "modern" (= NEWER) genes. 

As the pre-Colonial "New Worlders" made their way to the new world, where there were no humans, genetic memory of many ancient humans-based diseases may have been erased over time ... until 1492.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/06/how-europeans-brought-sickness-new-world

Not sure about Euro introduction of diseases to Africa, tho'. There were a LOT of Asia/Euro-based nasties that were, afaik, exclusive to Asia/Euro ... and NOVEL to Africa.

3 hours ago, CharonY said:

What you need are antigenic elements, you cannot easily isolate them from people. Or rather it is far easier to propagate it, and then create an inactivated form rather than injecting humans samples which are hopefully inactive (but may also carry other nasty stuff).

You're putting words in my mouth ... maybe in my nose!

I"M GONNA DROP THE ISSUE AFTER THIS POST  -- and if no one gets it, no one gets it! END OF LINE.

The nasal spray is synthetic way of getting scientifically-created/isolated viral fragments (vaccines) into humans/animals.

If one has naturally gotten over say a flu, breathed out dead/weak fragments to others of my species (not immune), I may communicate that "vaccine". I orig called it a "Another type of Herd Immunity" before that thread was merged into this megathread.  That was my theory ... maybe a pet theory.

END OF LINE.

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

Yeah, a quick wiki tot up suggests that out of 3000 tribes only 19 are nomadic.

Regardless, the orig. argument may still hold ... that Euro compactified the African communities to European norms: Europe is smaller and colder, the cities/streets are denser and houses more tightly constructed. 

As far as Aksum, Kingdom of Ghana, Abyssinia  ... well those communities were wealthier and may simple have had better historical records of their population geographies. That does not necessarily indicate total population dispersal and logistics. Africa is LARGE and with hot-to-temperate climates, with resources that are dispersed throughout this large area. It's true that MODERN Africa has very dense, crowded communities  --- an "imposed" (perhaps forced)  European legacy.

but it is erroneous assumption that all there was were nomadic (and often also assumed to be primitive) tribes.

Agreed with this when in regards to the "New World" ( Americas ) -- as has been noted in books like 1491 and 1493.

1 hour ago, CharonY said:

Basically because there is not enough data to make any meaningful inference...

 I have no idea what a "new" race is.

Yeah ... I am seeing no Africa stats on popular apps and COVID-19 tracking sites like: https://ncov2019.live/

That site is supposed to add Africa soon, as it states.

About newer races.. Africa (black Africans) has the oldest gene pool, the Americas ("native Americans"), have the newest. Euros and Asians are somewhere in the middle. Hence, IIRC, why European colonizers' communicable diseases decimated pre-colonial Americans.

Also, somewhere I recall reading that Euro colonizers in Africa were themselves decimated (but not the other way around). Instead, post-Colonial diseases in Africa (among blacks) were amplified because Euros forced CITIES onto the blacks. As nomads, their normal lifestyle was more, to coin a phrase, socially distant. 

I haven't seen much discussion on COVID-19 vs. race. 

Africans (and African-Americans) should be a genetic group to watch given their general robustness to diseases like malaria. (A primary reason Europeans used Africans for slave export to the New World). 

On that note, indigenous racial groups (vs COVID-19), should also prove interesting. E.g., how the newest races  fare (such as indigenous groups in the New World; many of which were wiped out by 15th cent. European colonizers-- Columbus, et. al))

Refs:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4067985/

18 hours ago, StringJunky said:

The virus particles are effectively disassembled, as CharonY said, so how likely will there be any immunologically-recognizable remnants after that process?

Right. And, ttbomk, that's one way in which synthetic vaccines are constructed: from viral " immunologically-recognizable remnants".

And some yearly flu vaccines are effectively administered this way:

5 hours ago, CharonY said:

The immune system does not only inactivate pathongens and then let's them float around. They basically take them apart. There is no transmission beyond that point.

Have naturally-immunized (self-immunized) organisms ever been formally studied to asses, e.g., whether they are not spitting, sneezing or breathing out dead/weakened particles (e.g., viral remnants )?

3 hours ago, Endy0816 said:

Using vaccines to prep the immune system is better really.

My query was not about "Using vaccines to prep the immune system" . By "vaccines " , I assume you mean  synthetic vaccines (shots!). 

If humans only recently discovered immunization via shots and nasal sprays, then Nature might use similar strategy  . At least via physical contact, body fluid exchange,  snot, etc. See my orig. query.

Say I get a pathogen infection, my immune system fights it off, and now I'm immune. 

Now, I've got a bunch of dead and/or weak pathogen particles in me. 

Can I pass these dead/weak particles off as "immunization" to others NATURALLY ? These may be via std. pathology communication transport: sneeze, breath, touch/contact. Essentially,  this is analogous to medical immunization inoculation or vaccine nasal spray. 

How realistic is this scenario?

If realistic, how common is this situation in Nature?