RoseHip

My reason for linking to the abstract of this paper is independent from your arguments above.

I'd like to discuss in more detail, immune stimlation and inflammation. How do the two correlate between each other.

You could also check what some of the key enzymes responsible for its biosynthesis are and check to see how many / what organisms are known to possess similar genes. Other people with more experience would be able to direct you better in this than I can.

hypervalent_iodine, How would I figure out this step regarding the enzymes?

Is it possible for a substance to increase inflammatory cytokine production, at the same time reduce inflammation..? Is my question. Not-a-chemist-type here trying to catch up with you all.

Do these "inflammatory cytokines" reduce inflammation, or make more inflammation .. ?

Based on what was mentioned there would this herb lower inflammation or stimmulate an immune response? or am I not comparing apples to oranges..?

(Not a biochemist..)

p.s. JorgeLobo I didn't find the study exciting either, is one supposed to? They did say something about reducing flu by 3 days in a hot body

I am thinking about doing that.

Great resource, thanks.

For this purpose it is for general knowledge. A doctor is being consulted for other things, they did recommend probiotics, but would like to look into it from this standpoint to understand the ins and outs regarding them. I'm on the same page as far as possible marketing hype, etc. .

It is in the intestinal tract that I need them to survive, I suppose regarding environment you are probably talking about Ph balances? If I remember correctly from my prior reading they prefer low Ph?

So, if you happened to read a few of my previous threads I have no background in biochemistry, though I find the topic profoundly interesting. I am scientifically inclined, can decipher things when need be, but need basic info. Could anyone recommend a book which would be informative in nature regarding chemical reactions, maybe some Kerbs Cycle information included that would be an "easy" or "moderately easy" to understand for someone new to this realm?

Don't mean to flip my own thread on it's head, want to discuss the original topic going forward as well, but I'm wondering... as far as lactobacillus survival, will it survive without Milk? Will it survive on only sugar from carbohydrates such as found in carrots?

Good info thank you! What about uva ursi, and some other agents. Actually I'm wondering if anyone with some spare time on their hands could do a test of this under a microscope, for other agents too. Will tr to do it myself, except this would not be in a lab setting with little experience, therefore my results could be very skewed .

Ok ty!

Anyone? So I have a microscope... (and a dream )... I know how to use the "machine" itself.. Say I wanted to test this out on my own... what type of magnification would I need for lactobacillus? The microscope looks like a bit of a clunker but I think it's about 400x. Say I take a probiotic capsule dump some of it in some distilled water on a slide... would I be able to see something? If I then add a substance to test to see if it would kill it... would that be a valid test? Any pointers?

Thank you. I will take a look at those sources. Unfortunately I know little about enzymes and synthesis, but will look to see nevertheless.

I could elaborate, however it is medical related so I'm trying to keep it generic here so as not to elicit a medical advice type conversation which could end the thread.

I have done searches in the past and haven't been successful in finding out what this substance even is aside from being a product of bacterial or yeast origin. How does it effect protein synthesis within the body, does it interfere with vitamin synthesis.

How would one go about figuring out what bacteria specifically makes this substance as a biproduct of their existance?

I'm not a biochemist, but I like to look at things in detail, so it looks like the same molecule based on my quick look per wikipedia... not aruging that, just trying to understand because putting the molecular structure aside, synthetic form of anything is seldom exactly the same from the real thing, perhaps enviornment surrounding it... how it was made ..etc. would those factors contribute to the purity.. for example there is information that during Pitocin manufacture it has to be purified some way... I suppose I do need to do more research on how it's made to understand the details, though it's not at the top of my list right now.. but I found the topic interesting and thought I'd throw it out there.

Might be that I should have included this in the Immunology section rather than here.. Moderator please take note and move as you see fit? TY

My only contribution was that if a person was on a deliberate low-carb diet, that's not medically advised, then they should stop. There seems to be a fad with some people, thinking it's healthy. You should only take advice from qualified people, and I'm not, but the first sentence I mentioned is an obvious action to take, if it's relevant. Is your child on a vegan diet (no animal products)?

No, there was a point where there were less carbs, but it wasn't where it was none, that's why it concerned me why the ketones would show up if there was carbs in the diet. Otherwise it's balanced with carbs being included almost every morning. A lot of meat is consumed though throughout the day, it's the preferred food. Wondering if a full diabetes test should be done, but given no sugar with the ketones, and a negative screen for it, it wasn't indicated to do so.

AFAIK, it's not.

 

http://www.rxlist.com/pitocin-drug.htm

http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/oxytocin

http://www.drugs.com/cdi/pitocin.html

Thanks.. per the link you provided for Pitocin and the wikipedia article I looked at the moleular structure looks the same. Are there any other factors that would possibly come into play as to the two substances being different from eachother from an overall (not just biochemical) scientific standpoint?

The presence of excess ketones in the urine maybe indicate that there is insufficient carbohydrates in the diet. The liver can metabolise triglycerides ( fats) in the absence of glucose (from carbs) but the result can be a high ketone reading.

Thanks, is this a dangerous state? Child is gaining weight fine, but there are developmental concerns. Also, if carbs are being eaten on a regular basis, but still ketones are showing up, what could this mean?

It indicates a significant breakdown of body fat. Through excessive (unhealthy) dieting, starvation and often through diabetes.

 

It is an indicator of diabetes.

 

They can burn an excessive amount of fat causing a positive indicator test.

 

Well has the toddler been eating adequately lately? Now babies can potentially have diabetes it is doubtful the toddler was tested yet.

Child was screened for diabetes, that was not indicated as a cause. Doctor mentioned not a worry if there were high ketones if the child didn't eat for a few hours which was the case on one occasion when we tested positive. It was seen only a few times usually in the evening. Sugar came back as negative during the ketone state. There may be malaborption issues possible, but fat absorption test came back OK. Ketones showed up mid day once despite large bowl of carbohydrate rich oatmeal (no milk). I suspect generally it may have been low carbs, but I wonder if there are issues with metabolism? Child eats a lot, more than we think is normal for a toddler 3 years old.

How is Pitocin (synthetic form of Oxytocin) which is used for birth labor induction, chemially different from Oxytocin?

How does Pitocin compare to Oxytocin with relation to subsequent brain/body chemical reactions? I realize this is a very open ended question, but if there is someone, anyone out there who knows or is looking to study something novel, someone out here is very interested... TIA

If ketones are showing in urine, does this mean protein, not fat is being metabolized? What is the reason ketones would be present if there was adequate fat intake? Carbs were low in the diet at the time, but I'm trying to make sense of the protein vs. fat scenario.

Sugar was not an issue in the urine at the time of high ketones. I was told by a physician that most teenagers will test positive with ketones after not much food intake and after hours of exertion from sports, but I was concerned about a toddler. Is this true?

Upon starving conditions in which there are no more carbohydrates (glycogen) for the glycolytic pathway, your body will first metabolize fat (gluconeogensis) first then protein, with the latter resulting in ketone bodies (very bad).

Anyone know if lactobacillus probiotic bacteria are susceptible to caprylic acid in the form of simply coconut water? What about grapefruit seed extract or uva ursi?

Thank you.

Hello Scientists.

I am new to the forum. Although I come from somewhat of a scientific background in the past, I am not educated in biochemistry. At this point I would call myself a scientific researcher and independent student, not necessarily by choice, but out of necessity. Nevertheless, I've found this area profoundly interesting.

Hoping your vast knowledge can help me find some answers, as I am desperate to understand a bit about immune responses and how they work. So onto my question:

In my search for natural anti-inflammatory herbs I found Elderberry as potentially being one. Unfortunately, digging in deeper I came across what _may_ be contradictory information and this is why I'm here, to gain some clarity.

Elderberry (as an example), is touted to REDUCE inflammation in the body, sometimes will help with allergies.

When searching further I came across the following "study". It states, "Sambucol Elderberry Extract and its formulations activate the healthy immune system by increasing inflammatory cytokine production".

So what could one conclude from this... so confused. If this is an "anti inflammatory" herb then why is it that it increases the inflammatory cytokine production?

Could someone please shed some light for me how this works... would I be creating more inflammation in the body by taking this herb if my goal is to reduce it?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11399518

Any info will help, thank you.