the Deplorables

[imatfaal]

Can I just put it out there that I think that anyone who votes for a man who boasts about sexually assaulting women is deplorable.

 

I can see why Clinton withdrew from the remark - it was not clever politicking - but most of us are not running for office and can be a bit more forthright in our views. Voting, let alone endorsing or campaigning for, a man who revels in his use of power to debase women and proudly objectifies one half of the human race is shameful, disgusting, and well and truly deplorable

[DrKrettin]

It does make you wonder what it would take for people not to vote for this idiot. From the Guardian newspaper:

 

"Democrats swiftly rejected the desertion of Trump by those who had endorsed him as political calculation – pointing out that Republicans had stood by the former reality TV star even as he disparaged Mexican immigrants, Muslims, prisoners of war, the disabled and the Gold Star parents of an Iraq war hero and repeatedly made crude statements about women."

[geordief]

Has anyone any advice to Hilary Clinton as to how to approach the second debate.?

 

Should she be reactive or pro active?

 

Are there any obvious mistakes she should beware of?

 

Can she fall into a "too smart" trap ?(I don't think so)

 

Does she just need to play it straight? Has she been given a home run provided she doesn't overmilk it.?

 

Is there anything she can say to connect to Trump's base support and show that he does not deserve their support or does she have to direct her comments towards those who are supporting him because they do not like her or the Democrats.?

 

If she offered to stand aside if he also agreed to ,would that work or could it backfire disastrously ? (I do think it is more important that Trump should not become the president than that she (or even any Democrat should)

Edited October 9, 2016 by geordief

[Airbrush]

She should allow Trump to say all he wants about Bill's affairs, then decline to comment, or address it with a short sentence and pivot. There is really not much to say about it. She should call Trump's behavior deplorable. I think it is important that she uses that word as much as possible but only about Trump, not about tens of millions of his followers.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Airbrush

[dimreepr]

Has anyone any advice to Hilary Clinton as to how to approach the second debate.?

 

 

Remember the rules of the playground.

[geordief]

Has Farage some primacy amongst his advisers for this debate?

 

If so can we anticipate his line of advice?

 

"Why don't you retire?" hopefully ....

[Phi for All]

Why are we shocked by the number of deplorables out there? We set out to educate our children in the US as an investment using public funds, and then we allow so much capitalism into the system trying to profit from it, and lobbyists pressuring for more privatized choices, and so much that is NOT good education directed in a productive manner gets piled onto our children. Many pick their way through the system successfully with help or without, and many more end up with less education than they need for modern survival. And far too many become deplorable examples of citizens, people who prey on other members of society rather than doing what they can to help. And of those, the poorest go to prison while the richest become media executives, real estate moguls, and politicians.

 

I harp on this a lot, but I'm getting really sick of having our social powers diluted by capital greed. It's deplorable how stupid we're being with our efforts and resources.

 

Is this the inevitable outcome of allowing corporations to control the media AND the businesses the media informs us about? I think, between a lack of education and constant media manipulation, much of the US at least has fallen to deplorable attitudes and behaviors, and respect for human lives fails to extend beyond a very limited circle.

[DrmDoc]

Why are we shocked by the number of deplorables out there? We set out to educate our children in the US as an investment using public funds, and then we allow so much capitalism into the system trying to profit from it, and lobbyists pressuring for more privatized choices, and so much that is NOT good education directed in a productive manner gets piled onto our children. Many pick their way through the system successfully with help or without, and many more end up with less education than they need for modern survival. And far too many become deplorable examples of citizens, people who prey on other members of society rather than doing what they can to help. And of those, the poorest go to prison while the richest become media executives, real estate moguls, and politicians.

 

I harp on this a lot, but I'm getting really sick of having our social powers diluted by capital greed. It's deplorable how stupid we're being with our efforts and resources.

 

Is this the inevitable outcome of allowing corporations to control the media AND the businesses the media informs us about? I think, between a lack of education and constant media manipulation, much of the US at least has fallen to deplorable attitudes and behaviors, and respect for human lives fails to extend beyond a very limited circle.

 

Unfortunately, capitalism is the source of our nation's wealth and power. Admittedly, it has been good for our citizenry compared to the citizens of certain other nations and political systems. The problem with capitalism is that it unleashes greed, which is a compelling, almost insurmountable force that will always find a way into system. It's a force that will never go quietly back into Pandora's box no matter the public benefit, not in America--in my opinion.

Edited October 9, 2016 by DrmDoc

[DrKrettin]

 

The problem with capitalism is that it unleashes greed, which is a compelling, almost insurmountable force that will always find a way into system.

 

Can you really say that one causes the other? What is incorrect with the statement that greed unleashes capitalism?

[DrmDoc]

 

Can you really say that one causes the other? What is incorrect with the statement that greed unleashes capitalism?

 

In its purest form, capitalism is wealth building that supports and insures future stability and, ideally, favors a stabile economy and nation. While greed, in my view, is a pursuit of profit without consideration of interests or costs other than one's own. For me, it is a distinction between wealth building with consideration of other's interests and profit pursuit without consideration of harm to others and the system.

Edited October 10, 2016 by DrmDoc

[Phi for All]

 

Unfortunately, capitalism is the source of our nation's wealth and power. Admittedly, it has been good for our citizenry compared to the citizens of certain other nations and political systems. The problem with capitalism is that it unleashes greed, which is a compelling, almost insurmountable force that will always find a way into system. It's a force that will never go quietly back into Pandora's box no matter the public benefit, not in America--in my opinion.

 

We pursue capitalist interests where it doesn't make sense. It's like we're practicing extremist capitalism when we feel we have to make a profit from school lunch systems and welfare medications. And when you place money and power above people in those situations, you get ugly, deplorable practices that make a few rich at the general expense.

[EdEarl]

I agree with you, imatfaal. Have you seen

 

An Open Letter To Donald Trump From Some Angry Women.

Posted by Gretchen Kelly in Feminism and Equality, Stuff That Gets Me Fired Up

I don't know how to summarize this letter, except to say it is civil bitching at Trump; both my wife and I enjoyed it.

[MigL]

I would be of the opinion that it is the freedom we enjoy in our democracy, that places power in the hands of the people and not the government, which makes it easy for influential people ( rich , famous, etc. ) to take advantage of that power to their own ends.

( I guess you've gotta take the good with the bad )

 

That's how a buffoon came close to becoming the President of the most powerful country on Earth, before imploding due to his stupidity.

 

He's got nothing to lose. He'll be going after H. Clinton with all the rumours and innuendos about Bill's extramarital activities.

Her best bet is to quickly change the channel, and stick to the issues.

 

He'll come across as an immature high-school kid talking 'gossip', and she'll be seen as even more presidential than the last time.

[DrmDoc]

 

We pursue capitalist interests where it doesn't make sense. It's like we're practicing extremist capitalism when we feel we have to make a profit from school lunch systems and welfare medications. And when you place money and power above people in those situations, you get ugly, deplorable practices that make a few rich at the general expense.

 

I agree and, regrettably, that is an unfortunate consequence of the greed capitalism nurtures.

[StringJunky]

 

I harp on this a lot, but I'm getting really sick of having our social powers diluted by capital greed. It's deplorable how stupid we're being with our efforts and resources.

You are not just left of centre in American poiitics but also left in UK politics too, I've noticed... nearly. It's not a criticism, just an observation. You'd be reading The Guardian if you lived here, methinks. You'd have been a 'commie' in the US in the old days; 60's and before.

[Phi for All]

You are not just left of centre in American poiitics but also left in UK politics too, I've noticed... nearly. It's not a criticism, just an observation. You'd be reading The Guardian if you lived here, methinks. You'd have been a 'commie' in the US in the old days; 60's and before.

 

I certainly have earned my money through capitalism. My objection is that the US spends far more than comparable countries for their social systems because of our insistence that we allow inordinate profits for those building our highways and other infrastructure, or our healthcare providers. Our deplorables bitch about government cheese distribution or needle exchange programs while private contractors overcharge for government contracts in the billions of dollars every year. And we're forced to use private contractors to make it look like we're keeping government payroll down, when in reality we spend billions more by doing it that way. And everyone knows about the US overpaying for healthcare. Why do we allow it?

 

I think capitalism is great. I like socialism and communism too when it makes sense for the People or the state to own something. I think it's deplorable that we've forgotten what it means to own the roads, the seaports, the parks, the airports, the highways, the federal lands. We've forgotten how much power is in our hands already, and we've forgotten the responsibility.

 

I think it's deplorable that "business as usual" is forgiven just as quickly as casual assault on women, or that mega-corporations who provide jobs are excused from caring about pollution, or paying taxes, or otherwise benefitting the country that gives them charter. I don't think all capitalism creates greed, but I do think when you've chosen a socialistic or communistic approach to a program or problem, and you allow it to have elements of profit that run contrary to what your program is trying to accomplish, the result is going to be some deplorable abusing the system for greedy purposes.

[neutrinosalad]

 

Unfortunately, capitalism is the source of our nation's wealth and power. Admittedly, it has been good for our citizenry compared to the citizens of certain other nations and political systems. The problem with capitalism is that it unleashes greed, which is a compelling, almost insurmountable force that will always find a way into system. It's a force that will never go quietly back into Pandora's box no matter the public benefit, not in America--in my opinion.

 

The interesting thing is that this force for greed was a huge part of what drove colonialism. A huge part of colonialism surrounded opening up trade routes with and extracting resources from countries across the world, by force if necessary. It was a thing that pre-dated the United States by a long shot. People have always been this way.

 

It has evolved though recently into a more benevolent form. The good and bad side of the capitalistic drive is dependent upon the duality of human nature. On one side there is overt human selfishness and tribalistic behavior, while on the other is a capacity for large scale cooperation. The challenge of good governance is figuring out how to employ legal mechanisms that place dams on the river of human desire in order to direct it into a constructive path that leads to this inherent selfishness benefitting society as whole rather than waging a path of destruction.

[DrmDoc]

 

The interesting thing is that this force for greed was a huge part of what drove colonialism. A huge part of colonialism surrounded opening up trade routes with and extracting resources from countries across the world, by force if necessary. It was a thing that pre-dated the United States by a long shot. People have always been this way.

 

It has evolved though recently into a more benevolent form. The good and bad side of the capitalistic drive is dependent upon the duality of human nature. On one side there is overt human selfishness and tribalistic behavior, while on the other is a capacity for large scale cooperation. The challenge of good governance is figuring out how to employ legal mechanisms that place dams on the river of human desire in order to direct it into a constructive path that leads to this inherent selfishness benefitting society as whole rather than waging a path of destruction.

 

Absolutely!

[EdEarl]

Unfortunately we have not been repairing infrastructure fast enough, dams have broken, and many others are leaking.

[dimreepr]

Unfortunately we have not been repairing infrastructure fast enough, dams have broken, and many others are leaking.

 

 

Indeed, but instead of just fixing the dams, we're planning flood defenses.

[EdEarl]

Since the flood defenses are too expensive, we will procrastinate until a disaster occurs.

[dimreepr]

It's like a plane full of people arguing over how fast to hit the mountain.

[Phi for All]

Unfortunately we have not been repairing infrastructure fast enough, dams have broken, and many others are leaking.

 

I think we're being played by another deplorable tactic, the bait-and-switch. In personal life, it goes like this, you move out into an apartment with friends, and because you're deplorable, you spend your rent money on beer. You know you can't approach your parents for more money for beer, but they don't want you moving back in, so you say you need it for rent. They pay it out and hopefully you can do that every few months without them getting wise to your tactic.

 

So our infrastructure money gets spent on subsidizing oil and coal and sugar, until our bridges start killing people, then we pay tons extra to fix them because it's an emergency now. The corporate interests get to party on the public dime while they paint pictures of welfare recipients partying on the public dime. It's the same deplorable, accuse-the-other-guy-of-what-you're-doing-first, tactics that we as gullible People/parents keep falling for over and over.

[dimreepr]

 

I think we're being played by another deplorable tactic, the bait-and-switch. In personal life, it goes like this, you move out into an apartment with friends, and because you're deplorable, you spend your rent money on beer. You know you can't approach your parents for more money for beer, but they don't want you moving back in, so you say you need it for rent. They pay it out and hopefully you can do that every few months without them getting wise to your tactic.

 

So our infrastructure money gets spent on subsidizing oil and coal and sugar, until our bridges start killing people, then we pay tons extra to fix them because it's an emergency now. The corporate interests get to party on the public dime while they paint pictures of welfare recipients partying on the public dime. It's the same deplorable, accuse-the-other-guy-of-what-you're-doing-first, tactics that we as gullible People/parents keep falling for over and over.

 

 

Look in my eyes Ma, I'll be there- Tom Joad