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Robittybob1

Gobekli Tepe - why was it built and then buried?

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Thread,

 

Golbekli Tepe's sister site, Karahan Tepe is hard to find info on. There are a number of short video pieces I looked at, that would place it where I have made the black circle on this Google screenshot. The coordinates are there on the bottom right. I circled some interesting terrain about a half mile East, that has some features that look unnatural circled in red, and remind me of the Golbekli Tepe site, in the valleys, marked in yellow, that approach, or are pointed toward a single point on the plateau, like a star.

attachment=11691:KARAHANTEPE1.jpg]

 

One of the pieces talked about the unexcavated site, describing the tops of Ts suspected to be buried stones similar to the ones at Golbekli Tepe, as forming a snaking avenue up the hill.

 

This is interesting to me, in that it would be consistent with my thought of perches upon which hunters could stand safely and attack a herd, or individual prey, funneled up the avenue.

 

It will be good to watch and see if this site ever gets studied, and what they find.

 

Regards, TAR


This sister site is about 23 miles ESE of Golbekli Tepe, to the East of that large rectangular farmed plain we see so obviously on Google today. I do not know what that area that looks liked dry rivers to the immediate West of Karahan Tepe, was like 10,500 years ago.

post-15509-0-25403400-1468043033_thumb.jpg

Edited by tar

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post-15509-0-12358500-1468077335_thumb.jpgNoticed this morning that the plateau to the immediate East of Karahan Tepe looks sort of like a spider which would (trap it's prey in a web) which made me think of the scorpion on the bottom of that one T at Golbekli Tepe. Then I looked at the T again, and thought the depictions of birds on it, that some had thought were cranes, or camels might be vultures, and the one holding the ball/sphere/Sun/Moon/head might instead be holding a rock to throw down on the prey. And the three basket looking things at the top may be depictions of the traps themselves, with animals caught between. And this particular T is decorated with the predators that inspired Man to build the traps and weapons and strategies that they used in the hunt to gain superiority over the bison, and boar and gazelle and sheep.

 

The snake, and vulture, and scorpion, symbols we associate with death, and that make people think it was the temple of a death cult of some kind, might be symbols instead of which the men that hunted the trapped animals, associated with and emulated, and put on the stones involved in the hunt, with the same kind of intent as would be associated with wearing a lion headdress. To usurp the power of said predators, and strike fear and submission in the hearts of your prey and instill courage and strength in the hearts of the hunters.

 

Who knows, the hunters may have even extracted the venom from snake and scorpion to assist in their work.

 

Regards, TAR

Edited by tar

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In number 76, the areas inside the red circles look interesting, like human activity was in the area, with the straight lines and holes and such, but I must pull those areas from any consideration related to the society that built Golbekli Tepe, or Karahan Tepe. There has been 10000 years worth of human activity in the area, since, and that while it appears the patterns are man made...so what, it was probably something that was done last year or last century or last millennium, or 5000 years ago, and should not be related to Karahan Tepe, just because its a half mile away. Probably a house foundation, and somebody digging for buried treasure...and such. On the other hand, the yellow line suggesting the various arms of the plateau may indeed have been around to a certain extent even 10,000 years ago, and the valleys could have been used to chase prey up onto the plateau and off toward the avenue trap at Karahan Tepe.

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....

 

Who knows, the hunters may have even extracted the venom from snake and scorpion to assist in their work.

 

Regards, TAR

That is another mystery in itself.

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Robbitybob1,

 

l Just looked at an article http://io9.gizmodo.com/5896262/the-last-mammoths-died-out-just-3600-years-agobut-they-should-have-survived that said the last mammoths died only about 3600 years ago on an island off Siberia, but that the most of them died off about 10000 years ago. That might put a mammoth or two in the Gobekli Tepe area and might be what we see at the top of the T in number 77. Perhaps it is not a bison, but a mammoth.

 

And I am wondering if the traps could have indeed been set as traps, with the spirals and circles and ovals built below grade and covered over by mesh or branches or ropes, to where when the prey attempted to escape up the slope, they instead fell into the pit, and were immediately put upon my hunters perching on the tops of the Ts. In this way perhaps a mammoth could be handled by a group of 30 men or whatever.

 

The arch over the baskets at the top of 77 might be showing the set trap. What the arches were made from, was probably organic, meant to give way under the weight of an animal, and would not leave much evidence after 10 thousand years. Could have been so effective a method, that there were no mammoths to hunt after a few hundred years.

 

 

Regards, TAR

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also, in defense of my hypothesis I will posit that man has always, and continues to, copy the environment and other species to survive

 

spears from antler, hooks from claws, dolmens from overhangs, earthen houses from caves, airplanes from birds

 

Other species had methods to catch prey. Claw and tooth, poison and stinger, traps and webs, etc.

 

Not unlikely that we learned some survival skills from our environment.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trapdoor_spider

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post-15509-0-11255600-1469239425_thumb.jpg

 

Thread,

I was wondering if the cranes were also captured and eaten. Perhaps the arrangement of the stones was such that it could also be used to lure in birds and then a netting was deployed, trapping the birds within the circle where they could more easily be captured or killed. The pattern behind the three basket looking things at the top of this stone, which might be representations of the three trap circles/ovals/spirals themselves, could be a netting or fabric of some kind, deployed over the traps, at the appropriate time, depending on the prey.

 

Regards, TAR


I am imagining the netting strung across the two center stones and folded up and rigged in such a way as it stayed up there with small rocks on it, and with ropes on the circumference of the net, going out one each to each of the surrounding stones. Then on a signal, everybody pulls and deploys the net neatly over the whole trap, with the birds, or whatever other prey, trapped underneath.

 

post-15509-0-61586200-1469243052_thumb.jpg


Come to think of it, snakes are also edible, and if the structures where built and then the surrounding area, filled with stone and dirt to where the traps were below grade, snakes and other small animals could fall into the trap, and find it difficult to climb. or slither back up and out, with the vertical walls.


Venomous snakes could be relieved of their venom for use as poison to disable prey on the tips of their arrows.

Edited by tar

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Thread,

 

This hypothesis is based on a thought that Neolithic man, should I put myself in his shoes, would be aware of the world, in quite the same manner as you and I in modern times, were aware of the world. The five senses would be available, and the ability to remember the forms, and sounds and smells and feeling, and arrangements of the world and to build a model of the environment, close enough to reality that one could use the model to one's advantage, would be similar to what we have today. We would have hands and mouth and arms and legs and the ability to not only maneuver around the environment, into a position of advantage and successful survival, but to manipulate the environment itself into arrangements that were conducive to repeatable and sustainable survival.

 

The stars were real, the moon was real, the sun gave warmth as it does now. Water fell from the sky and ran in rivers, the trees and plants grew and produced edible seeds and fruits, the fish inhabited the waters, and the birds flew in the sky and the animals populated the forests and the plains and how they survived were obviously successful ways to survive, which we as man would copy and engage in, as a matter of simple sense.

 

We were, by this time no longer naked and afraid, not prey, but hunters, and gatherers, having learned to use tools and having learned from our parents where to find food and materials useful for our survival.

 

At this point, I don't think religion, in the sense of the imagining of an anthropomorphic god, was required. The world was exactly what the world was, there was no imagining required, past that of building a model of the world within our own skulls. Our friends were real, our enemies were real, our parents were real, how we found food was real.

 

Regards, TAR


Thread,

 

Noticed that the two stones shown a couple posts ago, have a hole bored in them. These holes probably had a function. I am thinking a rope through the hole could pull a net from above down to the ground, from a position above or on top of the stone.

 

Also looking at the often pictured oval of stones, I notice that there are two stones around the inner circumference, opposite each other that have a slot carved in the top end closest to one of the center pillars. Not exactly in line with one of the pillars, but more in line with the one, than the other. There was probably a function for these slots. They could have been groves for a rope to ride in, or the anchor spots for some beam across, or perhaps the anchor point for a bent branch or arch made from some material or another, that formed the arches seen at the top of that one stone with the three arched handled "baskets" which might be depictions of the traps, themselves.

 

Regards, TAR


Or the two ends of a small log placed in the hole could be "pulleys".

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Thread,

 

As to why it was buried, I am thinking more and more, that as traps, there was a benefit for them to be below grade, and that when built and active, as traps, the area around them was filled in by stone and dirt carried up to the site. I do not know what methods were used to date the fill, or whether there was a difference in the dating of the fill within the traps, and that of the surroundings, to validate or falsify the thought that they were designed and built as "holes". Additionally, it seems to me that there may have been several traps active during any particular time period, and additional traps were built, to increase capacity or to facilitate a better design or to incorporate a new technique or perhaps to account for the slow shift of the stars, to recalibrate to the seasons. As earlier traps became obsolete for whatever reason, as the prey changed, or the sky moved or new ideas improved the design, the older traps would be filled to grade, to give approach ground for the herds to travel on their way to the active traps. As well, it is possible that each active trap of several was designed for a different prey. Say a waterproof one with clay on the walls to collect rain water that could be planted or baited to attract birds, that were then surprised and captured by a net design, and another designed for boar and sheep, and another for deer, and another to capture snakes and mice and insects, for instance.

 

As to why the last group of active traps was filled in, perhaps the agriculture of area had begun and more and more food was produced by growing it, and less was produced by capturing it, especially if some of the captured animals had been domesticated, the need for the traps might have lessened, and they were filled in, to keep travelers from falling in and breaking their legs, or to prevent unattended accidental capture of wandering animals.

 

 

Regards, TAR

Edited by tar

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