Zoo Tragedy

[waitforufo]

Why is that attention all on the mother?

My guess is that people who blame the mother or father don't have children of their own. While some children are well behaved, others can be quite rambunctious. Such a thing can happen very fast. Looking back on my own childhood I can recall many things I did where I could have been seriously injured if not killed. I'm sure I'm not alone.

[iNow]

My guess is that people who blame the mother or father don't have children of their own. While some children are well behaved, others can be quite rambunctious. Such a thing can happen very fast. Looking back on my own childhood I can recall many things I did where I could have been seriously injured if not killed. I'm sure I'm not alone.

^exactly

[Phi for All]

Why is that attention all on the mother?

 

Hard to blame dad if he wasn't there (was he?). But I'm a dad and if that were me and my child, I'd hold myself to blame if my daughter ignored zoo safety. We had annual passes to the zoo while my daughter was young. She got excited like all kids, and there were some close calls. I wouldn't have blamed anyone but myself if she'd ever gotten over a barrier though. I thought everybody knew they're minimal security and that you need to make sure your kids stay off them.

 

The zoo hadn't had a problem with the barrier before. Ever.

 

When I said I blamed the mother, I had just read testimony that said a bystander heard the boy tell his mother he was going over the barrier and down to the water, and that the mother responded simply by saying NO. So there was a warning the mother missed, and it seems to be the only real negligence involved. Other than the fact that any child that gets taken to the zoo should be reminded by their parent or guardian about the warnings that are all over the zoo about staying behind barriers.

[dimreepr]

 

Hard to blame dad if he wasn't there (was he?). But I'm a dad and if that were me and my child, I'd hold myself to blame if my daughter ignored zoo safety. We had annual passes to the zoo while my daughter was young. She got excited like all kids, and there were some close calls. I wouldn't have blamed anyone but myself if she'd ever gotten over a barrier though. I thought everybody knew they're minimal security and that you need to make sure your kids stay off them.

 

The zoo hadn't had a problem with the barrier before. Ever.

 

When I said I blamed the mother, I had just read testimony that said a bystander heard the boy tell his mother he was going over the barrier and down to the water, and that the mother responded simply by saying NO. So there was a warning the mother missed, and it seems to be the only real negligence involved. Other than the fact that any child that gets taken to the zoo should be reminded by their parent or guardian about the warnings that are all over the zoo about staying behind barriers.

 

 

 

It’s sad but true, that the attention of a mother/father depends on many things:

 

The socio-economic disposition of the family’s lineage.

 

Grandparental influence (both for, apparent, good and bad).

 

A parent distracted, et al...

 

Parental care, like most of life, exists on a scale, from abuse to over-protection; a well rounded individual exists, as always, somewhere in the middle (the freedom to explore with a relaxed attitude, hey a broken bone won’t kill ya) and yes, the abused sometimes abuse, but they didn’t ask to be abused, in context it’s excusable, but to judge without all the facts, is not.

 

But I'm a dad and if that were me and my child, I'd hold myself to blame if my daughter ignored zoo safety.

 

 

Blame is always retrospective and achieves,next too, nothing on this scale (a plane crash is a different story), the hardest to forgive is yourself.

Edited June 8, 2016 by dimreepr

[Phi for All]

Blame is always retrospective and achieves nothing on this scale (a plane crash is a different story), the hardest to forgive is yourself.

 

Again, my comments came on the heels of those about how it was the zoo's fault for having an enclosure for a dangerous animal that a 3-4 year old could get into. The gorilla is dead, and I can only hope that it's not for nothing. Future zoos will be built differently, and I hope parents will take some extra time with the toddlers to explain why our friends at the zoo are behind those barriers and what those barriers mean. Is it ever OK for a child to cross those barriers? NO.

 

I think we have an extra obligation to set the standards for our children about how public resources are treated. That means not letting them play with the automatic door-openers at the library that we bought for handicapped people. That means teaching them to treat public facilities at least as well as they treat their bathrooms at home. That means telling them they can't pick the flowers at the campsite, or leave trash for others to pick up. And if you don't think your child can handle those responsibilities, then maybe you need to make special arrangements.

[John Cuthber]

My guess is that people who blame the mother or father don't have children of their own. While some children are well behaved, others can be quite rambunctious. Such a thing can happen very fast. Looking back on my own childhood I can recall many things I did where I could have been seriously injured if not killed. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Yes. I know that- way to miss the point there.

Here's what I actually posted.

 

Was the father present? Some reports call it a family trip which suggests he might have been. The police are on record as saying that the parents (plural) won't face criminal charges. Why is that attention all on the mother?

[dimreepr]

I think we have an extra obligation to set the standards for our children about how public resources are treated. That means not letting them play with the automatic door-openers at the library that we bought for handicapped people. That means teaching them to treat public facilities at least as well as they treat their bathrooms at home. That means telling them they can't pick the flowers at the campsite, or leave trash for others to pick up. And if you don't think your child can handle those responsibilities, then maybe you need to make special arrangements.

 

 

I think we all want to provide more for our children than we received, but that includes the abused that choose to break the chain.

Pygmalion comes to mind, it’s not what you pay/learn, it’s the percentage of your potential.

[Airbrush]

This is so similar to the zoo tragedy that I will comment on it here. See the breaking news about the "Disney World Alligator Attack".

 

Again I have 2 things to say: (1) thorn-bush barriers, (2) leashes. If a lake frequented by tourists is known to occasionally contain deadly alligators, then the establishment has a responsibility to keep tourists and alligators separate. It is hard to keep gators out of ALL marshland in that area, but why didn't Disney plan and build some kind of alligator nets to keep most of the gators out? Also, why anyone with a brain in their head plan "beaches" around such areas with ONLY signs saying no swimming or wading? Plant thorn bushes to keep kids away from the water! And parents would be wise to strap their tiny tots into a harness and attach a leash to their back so they have a chance to save their life in an instant. That is especially if you are wading in the water at night with your 2-year-old, in an alligator area, in spite of NO SWIMMING signs. Duuuhhhhh.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Airbrush

[dimreepr]

This is so similar to the zoo tragedy that I will comment on it here. See the breaking news about the "Disney World Alligator Attack".

 

 

No it's not; it's one thing to protect people in an artificial/man made environment, but only arrogance would lead one think we could tame nature quite so easily.

[Delta1212]

 

 

No it's not; it's one thing to protect people in an artificial/man made environment, but only arrogance would lead one think we could tame nature quite so easily.

I understand the point you're making, but just to point out, it was man-made lake that the child was pulled into.

[Endy0816]

They start out small and have no problem moving on land.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qp_bUYPrTg

 

Best you can do is limit human access. Even then the gator itself may not be likewise restricted.

 

I'm not sure a leash would help, though I've never read anything about them taking a leashed animal in the first place.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Endy0816

[dimreepr]

I understand the point you're making, but just to point out, it was man-made lake that the child was pulled into.

 

 

But where was the wall?

[Endy0816]

But where was the wall?

 

Wall?

[Airbrush]

Australian resort beaches have shark netting, why cannot an artificial lagoon in a Florida resort not have alligator netting?

[Endy0816]

Australian resort beaches have shark netting, why cannot an artificial lagoon in a Florida resort not have alligator netting?

 

There are alligator fences, though they are pretty unsightly and could impact the allowed uses. Even then you need to continue the fence on land far enough that something which considers attempting to climb vertical walls reasonable, becomes bored.

 

What would probably work is modifying the shoreline's slope. Most here are more 90 degrees than something that gentle.

[Airbrush]

The shoreline is called a "beach" but there are no swimming signs. The word "beach" is an invitation for people from Nebraska to go for a hike in one foot deep water at night. It should not be like a beach and it should have beware of alligator signs.

[thatsneakyguy]

The shoreline is called a "beach" but there are no swimming signs. The word "beach" is an invitation for people from Nebraska to go for a hike in one foot deep water at night. It should not be like a beach and it should have beware of alligator signs.

 

 

Agree. Should have been "No Wading" signs, or "Alligators frequently sighted in water", or even some sort of fence.

[Endy0816]

"No Swimming(or Wading). Risk of: Alligators, Snakes, Brain Eating Amoebas and Boaters in water."

 

If is is a ditch or larger it has potential to host one or more alligators. Just be aware if you ever come visit.

[Airbrush]

"No Swimming(or Wading). Risk of: Alligators, Snakes, Brain Eating Amoebas and Boaters in water."

That is a good sign. Does that sign exist there now or are you proposing such a sign? Install these signs spaced every 50 feet of shoreline and also have a 3.5 foot high fence, like the one around the zoo's gorilla exhibit. That should significantly improve safety. Thorn bushes not necessary.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Airbrush

[thatsneakyguy]

They simply had a "No Swimming" sign.

 

If you have a designated beach area with nice water most people would think it's OK to walk in that water, at least up to the knees.

 

The toddler was reportedly in 1-foot deep water.

 

 

 

Disney alligator attack: Resort to add warning signs, source says

 

Alligator warning signs will be put up near all the waterways at Walt Disney World resorts following the death of a 2-year-old boy who was dragged into a lagoon two nights ago, a senior source at Disney told CNN on Thursday.

The move will happen as soon as possible, the source said.

Earlier, a spokeswoman for the popular tourist destination in Lake Buena Vista, Florida, said officials were reviewing the placement and wording of warning signs.

"We are conducting a swift and thorough review of all of our processes and protocols," Walt Disney World Resort Vice President Jacquee Wahler said in a statement Thursday. "This includes the number, placement and wording of our signage and warnings."

A dive team found 2-year-old Lane Graves dead on Wednesday. Graves died due to drowning and traumatic injuries, the Orange County Medical Examiner's Office said Thursday.

The Graves family was at a movie night outdoors Tuesday night at the Grand Floridian resort when the boy waded into about a foot of water in Seven Seas Lagoon, authorities have said. Witnesses, including the boy's horrified parents, tried to save him as a gator dragged him underwater, witnesses told authorities.

Search crews combed the water for hours before they found the toddler's body.

There are "No Swimming" signs at the lagoon, but there are no warning signs about alligators.

All the beaches at the resorts at Walt Disney World remain closed.

 

My emphasis

 

Source

[waitforufo]

While the death of Lane Graves is tragic and devastating to his parents and and extended family, deaths by alligators are very rare. From 1999 to 2007 there were 8 deaths by alligators in the US, while 509 deaths were attributed to wasps and bees. Do you think Disney World is free of wasps and bees?

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/17/health/animal-attacks-statistics/index.html

 

I'm wouldn't be surprised if far more people are kill travelling to Disney World by car than by alligators at the park. My guess is that peanut butter cookies deaths are more likely. Why does anything need to be done? It would be like putting up signs on public beaches saying beware of sharks, when drowning is the real risk.

 

 

Everybody gets dead. It was his turn. - ​Hondo Lane from movie Hondo staring John Wayne

[Endy0816]

That is a good sign. Does that sign exist there now or are you proposing such a sign? Install these signs spaced every 50 feet of shoreline and also have a 3.5 foot high fence, like the one around the zoo's gorilla exhibit. That should significantly improve safety. Thorn bushes not necessary.

 

I was thinking at all airports terminals and as you drive into the State. :|

 

More serious, many lakes do include signs along these lines, if not quite so blatant.

 

Attacks are rare, but most of the attacks have been in Florida. Disney should look at redoing the area and placing signs, but equally you are just as likely encounter one while playing golf or walking to the pool.

 

Generally they are easy to live with, but gotta give them their space.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Endy0816

[zapatos]

I'm wouldn't be surprised if far more people are kill travelling to Disney World by car than by alligators at the park. My guess is that peanut butter cookies deaths are more likely. Why does anything need to be done? It would be like putting up signs on public beaches saying beware of sharks, when drowning is the real risk.

To reduce the risk of people dying from alligator attacks. The same reason people are warned when sharks are known to be near beaches, when road hazards are ahead, and when food contains peanuts.

Edited June 18, 2016 by zapatos

[Endy0816]

New Signage at my work:

 

 

Entice, a politically correct way of saying gators find your ankles attractive.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Endy0816

[imatfaal]

New Signage at my work:

 

 

Entice, a politically correct way of saying gators find your ankles attractive.

 

Damn - the fact that we converse on this forum, have broadly similar outlooks, and tend to agree about a lot makes me forget how different our situations can be. The road I work on was rebuilt about 300 years ago, has been in constant city-like habitation for longer and there hasn't been a wild animal we need to worry about for many many more hundreds. In central London it can be easy to forget that the Global village includes places with snakes and alligators!