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Is this BEDROCK ? Things will always ultimately get better !


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Interesting paper. It confirms the well known fact that good scientists are highly creative people. Creativity is an essential component of each of the steps above.

 

?

.

 

Here also ....

To quote " the Atlantic "

 

"Society needs creative scientists for continued innovation. But does the process for teaching scientific creativity differ from artistic creativity? And can creativity be taught?"

 

Link :- http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/11/the-creative-scientist/382633/

 

post-33514-0-94597900-1464905150_thumb.jpg

 

Mike

Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos
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...I am very interested in the testing , experimenting , revising , retesting process. All I am trying to establish is this ' creative edge ' to various things , so as to add the possibility of some form of flexibility into the ' loops '

 

You might find some ways to be creatively creative by helping scientists communicate better, either with the public or with each other. A fairly new 'thing' in science is cross-disciplinary studies, since real-world problems often involve more than one scientific discipline. “Global environmental change has precipitated the need for integrated science, requiring collaborative efforts across organizations, institutions, and disciplines.” - Deana D. Pennington, 2008

 

Searching cross disciplinary science and creativity, I found some interesting links:

such as: http://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED462060

 

& another .gov site

 

Toward an Integrative Taxonomy of Team Science

Teams of scientists representing diverse disciplines are often brought together for purposes of better understanding and, ultimately, resolving urgent public health

and environmental problems.

 

A call to action is made to leaders from the research, funding, and practice sectors to embrace strategies of creativity and innovation in a collective effort to move the field forward, which may not only advance the science of team science but, ultimately, public health science and practice.

 

 

& lots more, from that search. Or you could try some other likely search terms, such as "team" or "integrative" or "integrated" science ...and creativity. :)

 

~Enjoy

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You might find some ways to be creatively creative by helping scientists communicate better, either with the public or with each other. A fairly new 'thing' in science is cross-disciplinary studies, since real-world problems often involve more than one scientific discipline. Global environmental change has precipitated the need for integrated science, requiring collaborative efforts across organizations, institutions, and disciplines. - Deana D. Pennington, 2008

 

Searching cross disciplinary science and creativity, I found some interesting links:

such as: http://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED462060

 

& another .gov site

 

 

 

& lots more, from that search. Or you could try some other likely search terms, such as "team" or "integrative" or "integrated" science ...and creativity. :)

 

~Enjoy

..

 

Essay ! Great ! Just searched one on your reference sites :-

 

Quote " Creativity in Higher Education According to Graduate Programs' Professors"

 

Peer reviewed

 

de Alencar, Eunice Maria Lima Soriano; de Oliveira, Zélia Maria Freire Universal Journal of Educational Research, 2016

 

" There is an increasing awareness of the importance of fostering creativity in higher education. The benefits of creativity to individuals and societies have also been increasingly recognized, as well as the key role of higher education in the information age. In spite of this recognition, there has been little research exploring creativity in ..............."

 

And as you say " many more besides "

 

Mike

Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos
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What all does this have to do with the OP?

.

 

A lot! We are in ' down time ' . :- http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/11/the-creative-scientist/382633/

 

According to the research done by " Jung" in the quote from ' Atlantica ' , Creativity becomes active after a session of learning , followed by some non related " down time " . Just drifting about , on a walk , or playing drums , or having a day off. ( See * below )

 

The discussion about " Things will always get better " in the universe . Is endorsed by ' Yungs' argument about creativity.

 

Applying his point :-

 

If there is ' creativity ' present in the universe , then things will get better . So whatever the structure 'is ' in the universe , it appears to be creative , therefore it will get better . ( original OP ) .

 

So if creativity is a necessary driver in research , in producing better results , it would follow that the Universe ( which is getting better , as seen by the resultant Universe , out there ) has creativity embedded in it ?

Is that not so ?

 

 

Mike

 

* Specific comment by Prof Jung " I always advocate for recess, Jung said. This is where imagination often happens. That downtime is really important for kids after they had their time in class, so then they need time to think about something they learned in class or absorb the material in a different way by getting away from it for a period of time.

 

In a blog post on his web site, Jung notes the value of what he calls imaginability, or the ability to play out ideas in ones mind. This sort of exercise can only be done with the default-mode brain, Jung said, while the conscious mind is busy doing something else thats not too taxing like cooking or making sure your teeth are brushed. "

 

Or having a walk by a canal with a Jack Russell ( Mike )

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!

Moderator Note

 

Mike

 

Stick to the OP or the thread gets locked. You have been told this too many times to count - this is not your blog and not a fitting place for a rambling exposition of whatever comes into your head. Keep the thread focussed on a single topic or it gets closed down.

 

Do not respond to this moderation.

 

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TESTING for BETTER.

 

To establish a measure on the universe to see if things are getting better , we need to set a marker and a unit/units of measure .

This will enable some form of comparison against time , seeing if there has been an increase in the value of the marker , with time ( a reasonable amount of time . )

 

I suppose firstly we need to ask " What is the purpose of the Universe? So we can determine a unit/units of measure ( How well is it fulfilling its purpose) .? ( size , worth, goodness, prettiness , usefulness etc ??? )

 

Mike

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I congratulate you for thinking in terms of testing.

 

I suppose firstly we need to ask " What is the purpose of the Universe

 

Maybe a question to ask before that one is: Does the universe have a purpose?

 

(We know it has porpoises. I'm less sure about purposes.)

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I congratulate you for thinking in terms of testing.

 

 

 

Maybe a question to ask before that one is: Does the universe have a purpose?

 

(We know it has porpoises. I'm less sure about purposes.)

.

That one, "Does the universe have a Purpose " will probably take me a week and a few walks up the canal to work out !

 

Give me a mo

 

I started the week search and think , by doing what a lot of us do ( Google ....' what is the purpose of the universe ' ) .

 

I did that a moment ago.

 

Here is the first link : - http://io9.gizmodo.com/5981472/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-universe-here-is-one-possible-answer

 

Mike

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Definition of the word , " Purpose " on Google is :-

 

purpose

ˈpəːpəs/

noun

1.

the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

"the purpose of the meeting is to appoint a trustee"

synonyms: motive, motivation, grounds, cause, impetus, occasion, reason, point, basis, justification More

2.

a person's sense of resolve or determination.

"there was a new sense of purpose in her step as she set off"

synonyms: determination, resoluteness, resolution, resolve, firmness (of purpose), steadfastness, backbone, drive, push, thrust, enthusiasm, ambition, initiative, enterprise, motivation, single-mindedness, commitment, conviction, dedication; informalget-up-and-go

"Middlesbrough had started the game with more purpose and menace"

verbformal.

 

From this definition , Initially, we have three pertinent words :-

 

" reason " given as a cause , justification ,

 

" done "

 

"Created "

Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos
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Definition of the word , " Purpose " on Google is :-

 

purpose

ˈpəːpəs/

noun

1.

the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

"the purpose of the meeting is to appoint a trustee"

synonyms: motive, motivation, grounds, cause, impetus, occasion, reason, point, basis, justification More

2.

a person's sense of resolve or determination.

"there was a new sense of purpose in her step as she set off"

synonyms: determination, resoluteness, resolution, resolve, firmness (of purpose), steadfastness, backbone, drive, push, thrust, enthusiasm, ambition, initiative, enterprise, motivation, single-mindedness, commitment, conviction, dedication; informalget-up-and-go

"Middlesbrough had started the game with more purpose and menace"

verbformal.

 

From this definition , Initially, we have three pertinent words :-

 

" reason " given as a cause , justification ,

 

" done "

 

"Created "

 

 

And none of those are obviously relevant to the universe.

 

There is no obvious "reason" (cause, justification) for the universe to exist.

The universe is not "done" yet (even the big bang is a continuing process).

There is no evidence the universe was "created".

 

So you have just shifted the problem from "what is the purpose" to "what is the reason". Which is (not surprisingly) the same question.

Similarly, before considering the creation of the universe, you need some evidence it happened.

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And none of those are obviously relevant to the universe.

 

There is no obvious "reason" (cause, justification) for the universe to exist.

The universe is not "done" yet (even the big bang is a continuing process).

There is no evidence the universe was "created".

 

So you have just shifted the problem from "what is the purpose" to "what is the reason". Which is (not surprisingly) the same question.

Similarly, before considering the creation of the universe, you need some evidence it happened.

Maybe not obviously , but none-the-less, there are things that we can ' tease' out' , which could lead us to

 

A ) is there a purpose

B) what is that purpose

C) Is there any meaning to the 'definitions use' of the words ( Reason, Done , Created)

 

Mike

 

Remember I am only part way through my ' week ' ! I am giving it a lot of thought !

So far , I am finding it quite interesting , there is this " cause and effect " rearing its head ( science style ) Also most of the words in the definition mentioned above , need ( awareness, recognition , consciousness etc ) . That needs conscious life to quite a high degree , for these to operate .

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Remember I am only part way through my ' week ' ! I am giving it a lot of thought !

 

It will be interesting to see where this goes.

 

 

That needs conscious life to quite a high degree , for these to operate .

 

And I think that is a key point. As far as we know, conscious life evolved quite late in the universe's history. So most of the development of the universe happened without it (outside of religion and science fiction).

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It will be interesting to see where this goes.

Tonight I sat in front of my fish pond !

 

It passed my mind . That here was a pond I have nursed for the last couple of years. No fish , black no nothing .

Slowly I have introduced pond weed , tall pond grasses, , Lilly's . And 9 gold fish . Daily I look for signs of life . The fish appear hesitently with signs of life .

 

There is an example here . My purpose for the pool was two or three fold .

 

(1.) I wanted to create an environment where I could sit and enjoy watching living fish , flit about in their pond. Also I was pleased to for a few pounds (2) supply a nice environment for them to enjoy life .(3) I also wanted to be proud of my pond of goldfish .

 

Surely this must have a parralel with the universe . It is in existence for us to enjoy life , and flit about . The universe is there for the purpose of creatures having and enjoying life . So it would seem we are just at the beginning as life is sparce so far . Let's hope the universe has a purpose for much life . We are just at the beginning ? Things surely got better for the fish . 18 months ago , it was a dark , blank pond of stagnent water . Now it is full of life, colour , activity , reproduction and much ' to boot '

 

post-33514-0-45635600-1465238758_thumb.jpeg

 

Mike

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.

 

"Surely this must" is not an argument. It is an assertion, and utterly unconvincing.

.

 

Yes well these are all ingredients to a possible " Much Bigger Picture " possibly ?

 

Especially in the pre Cambrian period the sea was dark and life was sparse . Weeds, few bacterial cuschons , then trilobites in the Cambrian period , fish , land animals etc as the ages past .

 

From a dark pond to land sea and air to the seathing life of today . One 'hell of a pond '

 

A purpose fulfilled . If there was such a purpose .? One could ask

 

How does a purpose like that arise ?

 

From ' nothing ' , from 'something ' .

 

From some greater truth of the universe which we do not yet understand?

 

So ! Is a purpose able, or possible or arise , to arise out of Non conscious matter .like an inert universe?

 

Mike

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There is no reason to think there was any such purpose.

Then no purpose , no universe .

 

Unless you are somehow saying , it's possible for a condition to arise, fulfilling a purpose that was never raised.

 

Surely this is Non Scientific ( cause and effect ) ?

 

Unless there is a new miracle particle which spontaneously creates itself out of nothing ? " the sponticle "? And then goes on replication with an inbuilt automata , program .

 

Mike

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Then no purpose , no universe .

 

 

That is an example of the fallacy of begging the question.

 

 

 

Unless you are somehow saying , it's possible for a condition to arise, fulfilling a purpose that was never raised.

 

It is possible for conditions to arise with no purpose. It is then possible for someone to come along and convince themselves that there must have been a purpose.

 

 

 

Surely this is Non Scientific ( cause and effect ) ?

 

Purpose is not a cause. It is something you imagine.

 

 

 

Unless there is a new miracle particle which spontaneously creates itself out of nothing ?

 

There is no evidence for anything being created from nothing.

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It is possible for conditions to arise with no purpose. It is then possible for someone to come along and convince themselves that there must have been a purpose.

 

 

 

.

But the definition of " Purpose "

"

---------------------------------------------

1.

the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

"the purpose of the meeting is to appoint a trustee"

synonyms: motive, motivation, grounds, cause, impetus, occasion, reason, point, basis, justification

 

"

---------------------------------------------

All these synonyms are surely , energetic, driving , causal

 

Inferring an energy and direction .

 

If you are saying an energy floating about directionless , bumps into something that gives the previously random ( energy direction pair )

Come to a chance meeting with something that will find this new pair a ' benefit '? Thus back dating this as a purpose ?

 

Is this what you are saying .

 

Mike

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Is this what you are saying .

 

I don't think so.

 

Clouds of gas collapse under their own gravity (because that is what gravity does).

Some of this gas forms stars (because that is what compressed hydrogen does).

These stars create heavier elements (because that is in the nature of stars).

Those heavier elements are mixed with the clouds of gas and eventually form planets (gravity, again).

Some of the planets have water and are warm enough that chemical reactions take place (just chemistry).

Some of that chemistry becomes "life".

Some of that life speculates on where it came from and why.

 

No reason, no purpose. Just physics and chemistry (basically always attempting to minimise energy).

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I don't think so.

 

Clouds of gas collapse under their own gravity (because that is what gravity does).

Some of this gas forms stars (because that is what compressed hydrogen does).

These stars create heavier elements (because that is in the nature of stars).

Those heavier elements are mixed with the clouds of gas and eventually form planets (gravity, again).

Some of the planets have water and are warm enough that chemical reactions take place (just chemistry).

Some of that chemistry becomes "life".

Some of that life speculates on where it came from and why.

 

No reason, no purpose. Just physics and chemistry (basically always attempting to minimise energy).

Yes but I could do a similar activity list for car manufacture .:-

 

Some sheet steel gets delivered to a large factory.

Machines that just happen to be there press out some body's

Engines that just happen to be on a conveyor belt , get dropped into a chassis

Tyres in a pile , that just happens to be near the line , are screwed onto chassis .

Someone joined all the wires together , because that's all he has done all his life.

 

 

A car is born .

 

 

A real purpose because the factory owner wants to make a profit .

 

Got a similar lilt . So !

 

We need to look for the ' driver '

 

Mike

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Tonight I sat in front of my fish pond !

...

The universe is there for the purpose of creatures having and enjoying life . So it would seem we are just at the beginning as life is sparce so far . Let's hope the universe has a purpose for much life . We are just at the beginning ? Things surely got better for the fish . 18 months ago , it was a dark , blank pond of stagnent water . Now it is full of life, colour , activity , reproduction and much ' to boot '

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

Mike

 

Mike, this reminds me of a recreational revelation, which a friend stumbled upon back in 1981. He said, "Life is just Nature's Way of Turning Light into Heat." After staring at each other for a moment, we laughed long and hard at, what certainly seemed to us to be, perhaps the most basic and simple, universal profundity.

 

At the time, we were both taking a thermodynamics class, working toward a degree in chemistry; and if you're looking for a purpose behind this reality, you might look at entropy. Growing, or maximizing entropy, seems to be where this universe is headed, but that's just an observation.

 

Now in retrospect, I can see some caveats or problems with defining the terms; but at the time it was very funny because of the way he saw increasing entropy--as "turning light into heat."

===

 

You might also be interested in "The Three Big Bangs," which I haven't read, but I did hear him give a lecture on the topic some years back.

 

~ :ph34r:

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Yes but I could do a similar activity list for car manufacture

 

 

You could. But it would be dishonest because we know cars are designed and made by people (for people).

 

None of those stages would happen without human intervention. Glass sheets don't appear at factory doors by natural processes. Cars don't assemble themselves by the force of gravity.

 

This is the standard Creationist tactic: "it looks like it was designed, therefore there there must be a designer".

 

Look at Chesil beach, for example. No one sorts the pebbles by size. It is just the result of natural processes (minimising energy). These processes will never produce a motor car.

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You could. But it would be dishonest because we know cars are designed and made by people (for people).

 

None of those stages would happen without human intervention. Glass sheets don't appear at factory doors by natural processes. Cars don't assemble themselves by the force of gravity.

 

This is the standard Creationist tactic: "it looks like it was designed, therefore there there must be a designer".

 

Look at Chesil beach, for example. No one sorts the pebbles by size. It is just the result of natural processes (minimising energy). These processes will never produce a motor car.

What do you know about Chesil Beach , that just down the road from us. I thought you were over in Newzealand or China somewhere ?

 

Now seriously , the Universe is sculpted by something . Whether it is sculpted by waves, water , energy , entropy ( and the opposite of Entropy ) , bugs , slugs , eels , fish termites , earthquakes , meteors, erosion , deposition , Gravity, pressure ...... Whatever creates the universe is a creator.

 

Now if you want to go into what a Creator is, looks like, ...............that is a different subject altogether.

But why can we not think of all the composite forces that you could go on to list , exhaustively , why can that not be given the name " creator" as a means of aggregating all those processing activities .

 

Mike

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