dimreepr Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Are you saying that you only know right from wrong because you used the NT as a map, Nope. I'm saying I stumbled onto it. or do you accept that most of us are already a pretty long way down the road to decent moral behaviour anyway. You can follow the yellow brick road but only the end reveals the wizard, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerer Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Because accepting and recognizing that this amazing realty is all because of the generosity of God He would not be a lesser being if we don't honor Him but we are lesser people for not recognizing that everything is because of him I am one of those lesser people. Why am I lesser for it? It would be possible for us both to hold the same world view, differing solely on your belief in a God and my belief that it isn't even a question because the word God have no definition which is testable and its definition is variable. Two people could easily agree that "God" exists, yet both disagree unknowingly, even two Christians, while maybe agreeing on the Jesus incarnation of God, both have completely contradicting ideas of the God not sent to earth - I've asked about 100 Christians so far, "what is God", I've never got the same response and there's been very very few explanations I would call tangible, unfortunately the tangible ones are the easiest to dismiss. How can I be lesser for not believing in something, which people who believe in can't even agree on, it seems none of you are believing in the same thing, doesn't that mean only 1 of you can be "greater". I see things in the opposite, those who believe in God are normally lesser (than you could otherwise be, not lesser than me) for it because of all the religious baggage which constrains their ability to question their culture and change it if there is a better alternative. I admit there are a lot of theists out there who simply maintain a belief in God, while allowing redundant cultural ideas to be dismissed. However some of those theists also are lesser for it, that is because they support by proxy the type of theist I mentioned before. As I see it, the only way to not be lesser for your belief in God is if you support change which can lead to equality, peace and a continued improvement of Humanity, while also not allowing dogma to constrain change in cultural values. I allow for a belief in God, except it is unnecessary and surplus to my belief in the need for the continued improvement of Humanity. God, whatever that is to you, can exist, just don't let whatever that is get in the way of rational ideas which do good, because then you're doing harm by proxy, that would make you less. (you know it was very arrogant, and prideful (a sin apparently), to just say in the negative, that you are greater than me and all others who don't believe in (your) God) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 You can follow the yellow brick road but only the end reveals the wizard, Indeed, and it turns out people call him God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Indeed, and it turns out people call him God. Just don't look behind the curtain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Indeed, and it turns out people call him God. I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Nope. I'm saying I stumbled onto it. You can follow the yellow brick road but only the end reveals the wizard, How about being specific as to what you found on that map instead of acting like it is a video game we need to play to find it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 How about being specific as to what you found on that map instead of acting like it is a video game we need to play to find it... I've tried, but sadly, my intelligence falls short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 I don't. Then why promote a book that does? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerer Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 How Can The Stars Fall From The Sky? 2000 years ago they didnt know what the stars were.. They looked up and saw specs of light in the night sky.. Didnt know they were huge balls of fire billions and trillions of miles away. The Scripture is Literal, It means those specs of light, Not comets or metors, but the specs of light they called stars.. The first point I'd make is that when they looked up and saw any light in the sky, they were all called "stars". You are correct they didn't know they were "huge balls of fire" (close enough, but seems you don't know what they are either ), but they also wouldn't have known what meteorites or comets or the other bright planets were too. Thus all the lights in the sky (excluding the sun and moon) would have been referred to as stars. Having said that, my interpretation of this is that sometime before this passage was written it had been observed by people a large meteorite entering the atmosphere. This would've been pretty damn scary, and if it impacted would've been impressively destructive. To see this would seem a lot like stars falling from the sky. Also as a meteor passed, there would be a very loud noise, this could explain the "shaken" description, alternatively the shock wave from impact would also shake the ground a lot, when the ground shakes and you look at the sky, the heavens appear to shake. Another possibility is just the tale try to reason how a star could fall from the sky, much like a fruit tree when shaken they could have hypothesised that if the heavens are shaken the stars will fall out of the sky. Since most people never get to see this, this fantastic eye witness account, which would terrify the observer and be a extremely terrifying mystery for early civilisation, it would propagate as a meme (in the cultural evolution sense). Sometime later, Matthew, (probably was Matthew, can't be sure), decided to use it as part of his writing. What better guess at prophecy for the future, than an event which happened but hasn't been seen generations, sometime in the past. It's bound to happen again, and when it does, those who read your words will think you're clarivoyant! So my points don't really argue against the overall statement. I agree the Bible isn't literal, or the word of God (whatever that is), I'm not really concerned with that, it's a non-question until you state it in an answerable way to me. I do however disagree though with your assertion that the word stars in this context only refers to actual stars. But what interests me more about the topic is how stories which may have been exchanged for hundreds or thousands of years can then be recorded as historical or prophetic and people see this first, instead of the deeper question, where did that story come from? I really only have stories to answer that story (I bet there's an impact crater or evidence of a significant airburst somewhere within trade/story telling distance of Matthew, within the previous few hundred... or stretching it a bit thousand years.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) Then why promote a book that does? Well I could promote Buddhism or Islam but what would that gain? Edited July 9, 2016 by dimreepr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 I've tried, but sadly, my intelligence falls short. So you are insinuating knowledge you do not have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 So you are insinuating knowledge you do not have? No, I'm insinuating understanding I can't convey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerer Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 33Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come.34It's like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with their assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch.35"Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back--whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn.36If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping.37What I say to you, I say to everyone: 'Watch!'"I'm wondering if we'll even be at home lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 33Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come. 34It's like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with their assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch. 35"Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back--whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. 36If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. 37What I say to you, I say to everyone: 'Watch!'" I'm wondering if we'll even be at home lol. I see no reason to think anyone is coming back or that I am a servant waiting for the master to come back... No, I'm insinuating understanding I can't convey. That is rather par for the course wouldn't you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 That is rather par for the course wouldn't you say? What's par for the course is assuming one can't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Well I could promote Buddhism or Islam but what would that gain? False dichotomy. Why promote any formal belief system? Why not promote "actually thinking for yourself, considering the other person's point of view and remembering that if we don't hang together we will all hang separately", or some such? Now that may very well coincide with at least some bits of some religions- but that's not the point. It doesn't mean those faiths are right- just that they got lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 What's par for the course is assuming one can't understand. No, that's the usual obfuscation that religion uses to make bullshit sound intelligent... What's par for the course is assuming one can't understand. I do not assume that, you are the one who is using confusion as a crutch not me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) Why promote any formal belief system? Why not, you do? Now that may very well coincide with at least some bits of some religions- but that's not the point. It doesn't mean those faiths are right- just that they got lucky Since you don't understand, then how do you know? No, that's the usual obfuscation that religion uses to make bullshit sound intelligent... Yet you assume this. I do not assume that, you are the one who is using confusion as a crutch not me... Edited July 9, 2016 by dimreepr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Why not, you do? I promote one that works. Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings. You, on the other hand seem to be both promoting something obscure- because being difficult and unclear is a magically good thing and trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlaar Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Mark 13:25 King James Bible And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. Question... How Can The Stars Fall From The Sky? 2000 years ago they didnt know what the stars were.. They looked up and saw specs of light in the night sky.. Didnt know they were huge balls of fire billions and trillions of miles away. The Scripture is Literal, It means those specs of light, Not comets or metors, but the specs of light they called stars.. If one single scripture has been disproved it undermines the whole bible and the belief system. How can God be wrong? It is figurative, and you obviously do not know enough about the bible to realize that not everything is meant to be taken literally, just look at Revelations, and half of what Jesus Christ said was figurative. From what you said in your argument makes you sound desperate to disprove the un-disprovable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memammal Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 It is figurative, and you obviously do not know enough about the bible to realize that not everything is meant to be taken literally, just look at Revelations, and half of what Jesus Christ said was figurative. So we can ignore the revelations in Revelations, phew that is a relief. Perhaps someone should tell the Jehovah witnesses? Re what Jesus said, were you referring to the parables or are there anything else that one should know about? It will be a lot easier to know what parts are figurative and what literal, don't you think? It would save us a lot of time and effort in having to discuss or debate mundane things such as a 6-day creation 6,000 years ago, talking snakes, an ark full of two of each species surviving a world-wide flood, the origin of languages, mass killing of Egypt's first-born, mass killing of the Canaanites, killing 1000 men with a donkey's jawbone, surviving three days in the belly of a fish, flying and singing angels, virgin mothers, the walking dead and all that jazz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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