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Can something come from nothing? Yes or no?


seriously disabled
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My father who is a mechanical engineer seems to think that something cannot come from nothing but I think that he is wrong because my father evidently never heard of virtual particles and quantum field theory.

 

Another thing my father believes is that mathematics doesn't really exist in nature but again I think he is wrong on that one too because the evidence shows that mathematical relations and functions are an integral part of physics and that physics cannot really be done without the mathematics.

 

So in other words mathematics is part of our reality but my father who is not a physicist does not seem to grasp that.

Edited by seriously disabled
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Another thing my father believes is that mathematics doesn't really exist in nature but again I think he is wrong on that one too because the evidence shows that mathematical relations and functions are an integral part of physics and that physics cannot really be done without the mathematics.

 

So in other words mathematics is part of our reality but my father who is not a physicist does not seem to grasp that.

 

We already have this discussion, which you started, and it went on for 11 pages.

 

For the title question, your first paragraph really doesn't give us much to say. We don't know your father.

 

Why are you restricting the replies to yes or no, like we're hostile witnesses in court? Since there are quantum events that only leave us with one answer to your title question, why are you even asking it this way? Do you just want a poll to show your father, that everybody else says yes?

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For the title question, your first paragraph really doesn't give us much to say. We don't know your father.

 

Why are you restricting the replies to yes or no, like we're hostile witnesses in court? Since there are quantum events that only leave us with one answer to your title question, why are you even asking it this way? Do you just want a poll to show your father, that everybody else says yes?

No I just want to know the truth regardless of a poll that everybody says yes to.

I don't think your father is referring to the universe. I think he means that you cannot make money if you don't have money. A fact which is very true in many countries.

No I think my father really is saying that that the universe could not have come from nothing because this is exactly the question that I asked him.

Edited by seriously disabled
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No I just want to know the truth regardless of a poll that everybody says yes to.

 

Truth?!

 

Out of both threads, 14 pages of discussion, did you get anything you felt supported one argument more than the others? Why are we doing this again, in a new thread? What has changed?

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My father who is a mechanical engineer seems to think that something cannot come from nothing but I think that he is wrong because my father evidently never heard of virtual particles and quantum field theory.

 

Previously, you seemed to agree with your father:

 

There really is no evidence that something can come from nothing. Because if it does then why can't a tennis ball or even a grain of dust just pop into existence from absolutely nothing.

 

The universe already exists for 14 billion years and during all this time we have seen no shred of proof that something can originate from nothing.

 

What I think is that matter and energy are probably eternal in some way or have always existed in some form.

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These types of arguements are typically ones in which something may hold true in one domain while they may not hold true in all domains.

 

As a mechanical engineer, he is probably referencing the conversation of matter which states that in a closed system, the amount of matter stays the same which is true in the domain in which we live, but fails in more extreme sciences, where particles can spontaneously appear and disappear, though not in any way that would concern the world around us.

 

As far as the math question, it sounds like it's a semantics argument. Math is a human construct but there are mathematical relationships in nature as well as universal mathematical relationships such as pi or prime numbers.

 

As an engineer, he probably knows that electrical, mechanical, and fluid dynamics all are based on the same set of formulas where each component in a system has an analogous counterpart I.e. capacitor, spring, or storage tank..

 

I believe Fractals are patterns that are said to occur in nature though even that statement can be interpreted in different ways.

Edited by TakenItEasy
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You have two topics here.

 

1) How do you define "something" and "nothing"?

 

Would you consider a "thing" that exists (interacts with its surroundings) is something as opposed to a "thing" which does not interact with its surroundings (has only a state of being and not a state of existence) is nothing?

 

 

2) Mathematics was invented, not discovered. Check the definitions of "virtual" (not real) and "function" (process, not object).

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Sorry, holidays and all, someone else was supposed to close this since it's a duplicate of two threads that have been pretty talked out. The OP needs to go back through those threads for the answers he asks for here. There were lots of great posts.

 

So I'm going to close this, even though I'm involved. Probably get coal for this.

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