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What is a pedophile?


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ill give it a shot mustang...

 

You have me a little confused. There is not much that can be done about breasts. Binding them would be sort of archaic. Is it the breasts or the makeup that are the main problem?

 

our society has a set the limit for "sexually mature" at 18 years old. evolution has installed a totally different and incompatible measurement system in every guy. according to that system, if a girl is sexually arousing shes ready. if a girl has full breasts at the age of 13 the second head doesnt care about her actual age, evolution has programmed it to see that as a woman who is capable of feeding a child, and therefor ready to mate. make up generally makes girls more attractive, its the same issue. which one is the "main problem" isnt really answerable. i would have to go on a case by case basis for that one. basically the message is dont let your 13 year old act and dress like shes ready for action (dont cut off her breasts either though).

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I don't think you can realize with what fury and contempt I viewed college-aged guys in the mall who used to approach my daughter when I was with her and ask for her phone number. I know she did not look 18. She was even flat-chested. (Still is poor thing. :) )

 

So there must be some dynamic going on that I just don't understand. Even if men in their twenties' date=' let's say, can be confused about how old girls are, why don't they just ask and err on the side of caution?[/quote']

 

was this still when she was 14?? :eek:

 

thats freaky. my assumption at that point would be that they were doing it as a joke, but it doesnt seem like thats what your saying.

 

granted, breasts arent the whole story and there is a whole list of other subtle things about your daughter that may make her look older than she actually is. i certainly hope this is the case. i would like to note that neither me nor any of my friends would ever consider hitting on a 14 year old. or hitting on any girl with her mother present. although, there are some kids at my school that i wouldnt be surprised if they did.

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ill give it a shot mustang...

 

our society has a set the limit for "sexually mature" at 18 years old. evolution has installed a totally different and incompatible measurement system in every guy. according to that system' date=' if a girl is sexually arousing shes ready. if a girl has full breasts at the age of 13 the second head doesnt care about her actual age, evolution has programmed it to see that as a woman who is capable of feeding a child, and therefor ready to mate. make up generally makes girls more attractive, its the same issue. which one is the "main problem" isnt really answerable. i would have to go on a case by case basis for that one. basically the message is dont let your 13 year old act and dress like shes ready for action (dont cut off her breasts either though).[/quote']

 

Okay. I think I finally get it. I forgot about the second head. :D Too old, I guess.

 

Well I wish mustang luck on his plans to keep his daughter reined in. Somehow, I think Dads may have an easier time with this. I was single when my daughter was in her teens. A Dad could have told her how awful men really are and maybe she would have believed him. :rolleyes:

 

Oh well. She got through it. No big accidents. It probably helped that at 16 she dressed, made-up, and acted exactly like Marilyn Manson. Even the gangsters were afraid of her. :eek: They thought she was the AntiChrist. It was the best protection she could have had in a town that mainly likes rap and Mariachi Music.

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was this still when she was 14?? :eek:

 

thats freaky. my assumption at that point would be that they were doing it as a joke' date=' but it doesnt seem like thats what your saying.

 

granted, breasts arent the whole story and there is a whole list of other subtle things about your daughter that may make her look older than she actually is. i certainly hope this is the case. i would like to note that neither me nor any of my friends would ever consider hitting on a 14 year old. or hitting on any girl with her mother present. although, there are some kids at my school that i wouldnt be surprised if they did.[/quote']

 

Right, 14. I hated those guys. I didn't let her wear much make up when she was 14. Lipgloss was it. I was terrified all my daughter's teenage years. I'd be snarling at those guys and she would be smiling. She thought it was cool. Got help you all with teenage daughters!

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POSTED by Coral_Rhedd: A Dad could have told her how awful men really are and maybe she would have believed him.

 

uh hum... don't even go there. In my relationship it turned out that I was used by a psycho woman who was a pathelogical liar. (Even her own mother had been sending her to therapy) I didn't know this, and I fell for her manipulation. She told me so many horrible things had happened to her, that I felt empathetic and I fell for all of it. Even when she said she couldn't get pregnant. hah! dumb me.

 

We have since broken up and custody battle is on.

 

"Awful" people can be man or woman. I plan to teach her how to identify the bad boys and stay away, while trying to be an Honest caring person herself. My ultimate goal is to teach her independence so she will not need a man to provide for her. That way she can take her time and choose wisely who she wants to be in a relationship with.

 

Sexy outfits will be off limits as far as I am concerned until she is 17-18 ready to understand the consequences of her actions. Any younger than that and I believe it coaxes boys and men for that manner to make sexual inuindos to her that will only lead to her becoming sexually active before she is mentally ready to handle it.

 

Thanks for wishing me luck though. It is pretty hard being a single father with a 2yr daughter. No baby changing rooms in the mens rooms. (People stare at us when I take her into the bathroom with me.) Guess its still not mainstream yet. Where's the equality?

 

And thanks for clearing that up Callipygous.

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uh hum... don't even go there. In my relationship it turned out that I was used by a psycho woman who was a pathelogical liar. (Even her own mother had been sending her to therapy) I didn't know this' date=' and I fell for her manipulation. She told me so many horrible things had happened to her, that I felt empathetic and I fell for all of it. Even when she said she couldn't get pregnant. hah! dumb me.

[/quote']

 

Sorry to hear that.

 

We have since broken up and custody battle is on.

 

I went through one of those. :-(

 

"Awful" people can be man or woman. I plan to teach her how to identify the bad boys and stay away, while trying to be an Honest caring person herself. My ultimate goal is to teach her independence so she will not need a man to provide for her. That way she can take her time and choose wisely who she wants to be in a relationship with.

 

Sorry. I did not mean to sound sexist. I had my tongue in my cheek but that doesn't show over the internet. What I meant is that men are often more cautionary about other men than women are.

 

Sexy outfits will be off limits as far as I am concerned until she is 17-18 ready to understand the consequences of her actions. Any younger than that and I believe it coaxes boys and men for that manner to make sexual inuindos to her that will only lead to her becoming sexually active before she is mentally ready to handle it.

 

You are probably right but it can be a battle. The best advice that anyone ever gave me concerning teenagers was "Pick your battles." Most my battles had to do not with boys but with my daughters peers in general. She may have been the scary looking one, but it was her friends who were doing serious drugs. Suzanna was mostly a nerd.

 

Thanks for wishing me luck though. It is pretty hard being a single father with a 2yr daughter. No baby changing rooms in the mens rooms. (People stare at us when I take her into the bathroom with me.) Guess its still not mainstream yet. Where's the equality?

 

You should complain about the lack of changing tables. I didn't know men's rooms do not have them.

 

And thanks for clearing that up Callipygous

 

Yep. Thanks.

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It's a BIG difference between someone at the age of 19 for having sex with someone with the age of 17 and someone with the age of 50 having sex with someone with the age of 5.

 

When going to the extreme limits it's easy to say which is a pedophile and which is not, but in the grey zone in between, it can sometimes be very hard.

 

The law draws a razor sharp limit in the age of the younger one, but doesn't take in account the age of the older, but humans do.

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It's a BIG difference between someone at the age of 19 for having sex with someone with the age of 17 and someone with the age of 50 having sex with someone with the age of 5.

 

When going to the extreme limits it's easy to say which is a pedophile and which is not' date=' but in the grey zone in between, it can sometimes be very hard.

 

The law draws a razor sharp limit in the age of the younger one, but doesn't take in account the age of the older, but humans do.[/quote']

 

A nineteen year old having sex with a 17 year old is probably not a pedophile. But there are men that prey upon adolescent girls. By this I mean fully adult men.

 

Here is an example: A friend of mine came across an abandoned "suicide" note written by her daughter. This girl wrote in the note that she been having an affair with her track coach and that she was therefore an adultress. Guilt and rejection by this man made her consider suicide. The "affair" began when the girl was fourteen. My friend did a little investigating. She found out that this man (a married man with two teenaged daughters) who was also a family friend and whom she had trusted completely had also had "affairs" with two other girls he had coached.

 

Amazingly, all the girls persuaded their mothers (these were all daughters of single mothers) not to try to press charges or even report him to the school where her volunteered as a coach.

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Sorry. I did not mean to sound sexist. I had my tongue in my cheek but that doesn't show over the internet. What I meant is that men are often more cautionary about other men than women are.

 

Hmm I dunno, do you think women are more cautionary of other women than men are? I think the 'evil' mother inlaw stereotype might be a little anecdotal evidence that women are just as cautionary, but have less influence, so tend to just make their point heard in other, less pleasant, scheming ways.

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Hmm I dunno, do you think women are more cautionary of other women than men are? I think the 'evil' mother inlaw stereotype might be a little anecdotal evidence that women are just as cautionary, but have less influence, so tend to just make their point heard in other, less pleasant, scheming ways.

 

Not following. What sort of scheming are your referring to?

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I think statutory rape laws indicate how arbitrary and relative moral systems are. Before 1900s, there were no statutory rape laws. In other words, for about the last 5,000 years of recorded human history, there were no age of consent laws. But now we have them. And the trend is towards higher and higher age of consent laws, from 15 to 16 to 17 to 18, and many even contemplate increasing the age to 21. And during each generation of morality, the followers claim moral absolutism, yet the next generation the morality changes.

 

Also, the American Psychological Association came to the conclusion that there was no emotional damage done to a teenager under the age of 18 who had a sexual relation with some someone 18 or over, as long as the relationship was mutual and consensual on both parts. They actually said the minor found the experience to be pleasurable. So in other words, statutory rape laws don't have any scientific backing, it's rather an emotional imperative. Much of it came from feminist ideology that views all men are "evil sexual predators." Women have to be protected from the "barbaric" males.

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Also' date=' the American Psychological Association came to the conclusion that there was no emotional damage done to a teenager under the age of 18 who had a sexual relation with some someone 18 or over, as long as the relationship was mutual and consensual on both parts. They actually said the minor found the experience to be pleasurable. So in other words, statutory rape laws don't have any scientific backing, it's rather an emotional imperative. Much of it came from feminist ideology that views all men are "evil sexual predators." Women have to be protected from the "barbaric" males.[/quote']

 

What study are you referring to? I assume it gets a little more specific that "under the age of 18" and "someone 18 or over." When you use the words "the minor" are you referring to one minor or many?

 

No one ever said sex couldn't be pleasurable in this thread.

 

What feminist literature are you quoting?

 

Are you proposing eliminating statutory rape laws based upon the "study."

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A nineteen year old having sex with a 17 year old is probably not a pedophile. But there are men that prey upon adolescent girls. By this I mean fully adult men.
There exists adult females that take advantages of younger boys also...

 

Here is an example: A friend of mine came across an abandoned "suicide" note written by her daughter. This girl wrote in the note that she been having an affair with her track coach and that she was therefore an adultress. Guilt and rejection by this man made her consider suicide. The "affair" began when the girl was fourteen. My friend did a little investigating. She found out that this man (a married man with two teenaged daughters) who was also a family friend and whom she had trusted completely had also had "affairs" with two other girls he had coached.
As I said in my post there exists a grey zone where it can be hard to draw the right conclusions. A married adult man having affairs with several, much younger girls he is supposed to coach, is indeed doing very wrong, no question about that.

 

Amazingly, all the girls persuaded their mothers (these were all daughters of single mothers) not to try to press charges or even report him to the school where her volunteered as a coach.
They problably feel ashame and take the blame on themself without cause and don't want it to become public. That is a problem because the bad guys count on this cind of protection which allows them to contiune with other victims in the future.
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Yes' date=' to the abuse probably, but the abuse suffered by them is not always sexual abuse. Recently there was a study in which many sexual abusers who claimed they were sexually abused as children recanted when faced with a polygraph test.

[/quote']

 

Well, the terrible fact is that abused children often are subjected to more than one kind of abuse. But I still believe that no child who has grown in a supportive and loving home can become a pedophile or a sexual sadist of some other kind.

 

 

Knowing this, you no doubt also know about power rapists. An adult is, by virtue of being an adult, more powerful than a child. I think power is more often the motive but that sex and violence can be the one of the payoffs as well. I have come to disagree with the traditional feminist accessment (which I used to hold) that rape is all about violence. I think it is more complex than that. In a strange sort of way, I think child sexual abuse is often about payback. I think it is hardly a coincidence that so many abusers choose victims who are the same age as the abuser was when he/she felt most victimized. My theory is that the abuse is a reinactment of sorts.

 

I can definitely agree that rape is about payback and revenge. There exists a type of rapist who has been raised by an abusive single mother, unable to form healthy relationships with the opposite sex, and who uses rape to avenge himself of his mother and womanhood in general.

 

 

Agreed. But why do they not want to change? So many other criminals can be rehabilitated. Why can't they?

 

I think we should look at the time a person seeks treatment for pedophilia. If someone comes to a psychiatrist's office or checks himself into a mental hospital, and states that he has violent sexual urges towards children and fears he may not be able to control himself much longer -- well, this is the type of person who needs and deserves our help, and can actually benefit from it.

 

On the other hand, if a pedophile is caught after years of abusing who knows how many kids (therefore causing them irreparable trauma), and he then throws up his hands and says: "I'm mentally ill! I need help!", well...

 

I think the reason pedophiles are hard to cure simply because what they do gives them pleasure, and because it is still, despite everything, easy to get away with doing what they do. Children don't vote, they don't pass laws and they don't pay taxes. Pedophiles do.

 

Would you agree to imprisoning juvenile offenders? Often this behavior begins at puberty. It is almost untreatable then as well. Yet we let juvenile offenders go when they are 18 despite the fact that, if they are not caught, they will have many many years to prey upon children,

 

This is a very hard question. The fact is that the recividism rate for pedophiles, especially those focused on children of their own sex, is staggeringly high. I think at the moment it is more important to contain this phenomenon than to debate about what causes it. To answer your question, people under 18 can be monsters too, and letting them loose in society will only cause harm -- as terrible as that sounds.

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When I was 14, some senior boys began calling me at my house and my dad went ballistic. I wasn't allowed to date even at 16 let alone with a senior.

 

After politely turning them down, I was called a Lezbo (which I'm not) but that is the excuse they used for me not dating them.

 

Funny thing is that the freshman, sophomores or juniors, never called me, it was only the seniors. I will never forget how angry my dad was. Lucky, nobody came to the door.

 

Bettina

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Posted by Bettina: After politely turning them down, I was called a Lezbo (which I'm not) but that is the excuse they used for me not dating them.

 

It's called peer pressure. Good for you if you didn't fall for it. They were a bunch of horny toads. Your Dad was being naturally protective of you. I have a 2 year old daughter, and it's amazing how I just naturally freak out if I hear her scream in another room because I don't want her to be hurt in anyway. I believe I will probably react the same way your father did. I won't get crazy angry though.

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When I was 14' date=' some senior boys began calling me at my house and my dad went ballistic. I wasn't allowed to date even at 16 let alone with a senior.

 

After politely turning them down, I was called a Lezbo (which I'm not) but that is the excuse they used for me not dating them.

 

Funny thing is that the freshman, sophomores or juniors, never called me, it was only the seniors. I will never forget how angry my dad was. Lucky, nobody came to the door.

 

Bettina[/quote']

 

this would be a typical example of the kids i mentioned before, the ones at my school that actually would do such things. they are assholes. they go to parties on the weekends, get really really drunk, and screw a different girl each week, if not two in the same party. calling you a lezbo is exactly what i would expect. a special kind of arogance comes with senior year and seniors checking out the "fresh meat" (the new freshman girls at the school) is pretty much standard. i remember at my freshman rally (the one where they sit everyone down and laugh at the freshmen because none of them have the spirit to stand up and cheer) one of the seniors made a comment, over the microphone, about "checking out some of these hot freshman girls." this was a rehearsed part of the rally, they planned it out and practiced it and aparently none of them stopped to think it might be a little inappropriate, even with everyone present, including teachers, administrators, and the on campus police officer.

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Coral_Rhedd, here is the dictionary's description of the term.

 

Main Entry: pe·do·phil·ia

Pronunciation: "pE-d&-'fi-lE-&

Function: noun

Etymology: New Latin

: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object

- pe·do·phil·i·ac /-'fi-lE-"ak/ or pe·do·phil·ic /-'fi-lik/ adjective

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I am wondering how people view pedophiles and child sexual abusers.

 

Do you think they are insane?

Do you think they are repeating a cycle of abuse?

Could pedophilia simply be another sexual preference?

 

Here is a link I found that is quite educational:

 

http://www.darkness2light.org/faq/faqs_2.asp

 

However' date=' please understand that many of these people don't actually think they are doing something wrong. Some believe they are liberating children to express their sexual feelings.

 

I think they are exploiting children. Because we do not know how to truly treat them, I think they should be identified early and isolated from the general population. This would mean a form of incarceration for offenders that are relatively young.

 

What are your thoughts on who these people are and how we can identify and help them while protecting children?[/quote']

 

Remember that Sociopaths don't believe that the things they do are wrong either. A sociopathic person can go through their lives, commiting travesties against the law, or moral aversions, or whatever and not have any moral consequence about it whatsoever. Is it because they're insane? No, it's because of a chemical imbalance of the brain, that affects their judgement. It's not that they see what they're doing as wrong, it's that they see it as something that is RIGHT, which they simply have to do out of compulsion. In fact, NOT doing it would be wrong.

 

In a sense, pedophilia, while perverse, is in the same way a necessity for pedophiles. It's a compulsion that they can't help (ok, they can, but it's a strong compulsion that many are weak-of-will to combat, remember sexual libido mind you). And no, they are not sane, so yes, they are insane in this way, because they are incapable (or at least, they argue) of preventing themselves of doing such a thing. And yes, it is a sexual preference because they are arroused through children, rather than peers.

 

And yes, sometimes, it is a repeat of previous instances of abuse. Look at M. Jackson!!! He was abused all of this childhood (not physically . . . emotionally), so children are the people he best associates with. Pedophiles are similar in this way, but that's not to say that all pedophiles are the same, it's just to say that all of your proposed reasons are correct in certain instances, and also in instances that you haven't proposed.

 

So, you're right on all accounts. At least, I think you are. Being somewhat of a would-be victim of pedophilia, I'd like to think I have some remote clue as to what I'm talking about . . .

 

Anyway, the list goes on as to a pedophiles reasons.

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I don't see where it makes much difference if a pedophile is insane or not. The fact is that his/her actions do great damage to their victims.

 

Pyromaniacs are also mentally deranged as are serial killers.

 

If there was a reliable treatment for this illness then I would say give them the treatment, but since there seems to be none, then I say lock them up and throw away the key.

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you asked "What is a pedophile?"

 

well there`s a fine dividing line there, basicly it means "Child Lover" (in the erotic sense) and that is different in intent from a child molester, pedophile doesn`t wish the child any harm whereas a molester doesn`t care eitherway.

 

there are also certain tribes where a "child" of 11 years of age is considered "ready", and it`s been like that for centuries for them.

are thet pedophiles or molesters? I don`t think so, it`s just their culture, is it right or wrong? it`s not for us to say!

 

but if the law in the land we ellect to live in says that the legal age is 16 or 18 or whatever, then we should abide by that, or move out!

 

is it a mental illness? I don`t know, but if it`s in England and under 16 then it`s a CRIME!

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There exists adult females that take advantages of younger boys also...

 

Certainly true. Here is a link that is an overview of research and case studies about the female sexual abuser:

 

http://www.ipt-forensics.com/library/female.htm

 

And here the summary of that link:

 

1) Awareness about women perpetrators of sexual abuse use has greatly increased in recent years. However' date=' sexual contact between children and women is a minority of child-adult sexual contacts and the traditional view of child sexual abuse as a primarily male problem is correct.

 

2) Child sexual abuse by females does occur and may not be as rare as the earlier literature indicates.

 

3) There is a great range in the estimated frequency of sexual abuse by women from different studies and the definition of sexual abuse used, sample selected and methodology employed must be considered.

 

4) Some of the recent literature which discusses female perpetrators is likely to have included cases of false accusations which gives a misleading picture of both the frequency with which females abuse children and the characteristics of such women.

 

5) Female child sexual abusers are less likely than men to fit the psychiatric definition of pedophile.

 

6) There are widely different circumstances in which females may engage in behavior that is defined as child sexual abuse and the circumstances that lead women to sexually abuse children can often be differentiated from those causing men to do so. One example of this is sexual abuse which occurs in conjunction with a dominant male and in which the woman plays a secondary role. Another is found by the retrospective surveys of college men in which many of the boys reported that they had engaged in the incidents voluntarily and did not feel victimized.

 

7) Many studies depict women who sexually abuse children as being loners, socially isolated, alienated, likely to have had abusive childhoods, and apt to have emotional problems. However, most are not psychotic.[/quote']

 

 

 

They problably feel ashame and take the blame on themself without cause and don't want it to become public. That is a problem because the bad guys count on this cind of protection which allows them to contiune with other victims in the future.

 

I believe you nailed it here. Abusers absolutely rely upon the silence of the victims. They create a fear or a guilt in the victims designed to keep victims silent. There have been theses written on how society colludes to enforce this silence.

 

This presents a problem because how can we have a true picture of the prevalance of sexual abuse? In the legal system there is a problem with victims recanting abuse. Kids aren't stupid. When they see that their lives are about to be turned upside down due the investigation into their allegations of abuse, they just want it all to go away. It is not uncommon for victims to recant or take back the accusation when it becomes clear that their confidentiality is gone and that age mates at school will know of the abuse.

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When I was 14' date=' some senior boys began calling me at my house and my dad went ballistic. I wasn't allowed to date even at 16 let alone with a senior.

 

After politely turning them down, I was called a Lezbo (which I'm not) but that is the excuse they used for me not dating them.

 

Funny thing is that the freshman, sophomores or juniors, never called me, it was only the seniors. I will never forget how angry my dad was. Lucky, nobody came to the door.

 

Bettina[/quote']

 

Did you dress conservatively in school or sexually?

 

The trend today is for females to dress in ways that highlight and reveal their private parts, but these females don't like it when men have sexual thoughts about them for dressing like this. In other words, the needs of females are always placed above the needs of males, which is what our modern feminist culture dictates.

 

Regarding your father getting angry, I agree with you that it's a good thing the highschool males did not come to the door. It seems to me that your father would have assaulted them and then end up in jail for assault and battery charges against a minor.

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Well' date=' the terrible fact is that abused children often are subjected to more than one kind of abuse. But I still believe that no child who has grown in a supportive and loving home can become a pedophile or a sexual sadist of some other kind.

[/quote']

 

I agree in part. But in even loving and protective homes, the unthinkable can happen. Still, prepetrators do seem to target more vulnerable children. Having a good home probably does provide some protection even from perpetration by outsiders.

 

I can definitely agree that rape is about payback and revenge. There exists a type of rapist who has been raised by an abusive single mother, unable to form healthy relationships with the opposite sex, and who uses rape to avenge himself of his mother and womanhood in general.

 

There is also a rather different profile when it comes to gang rape. Contempt for women and peer pressure often motivate this behavior. Strangely enough, I once knew a guy who admitted to participating in a gang rape. He was the husband of a close friend of mine many years ago. We were all quite astonished when he revealed this incident to us and went on to justify his behavior by saying the woman had a slutty reputation to begin with. It is as if he was able to objectify her using this thinking and exonerate himself of having done anything bad.

 

I think we should look at the time a person seeks treatment for pedophilia. If someone comes to a psychiatrist's office or checks himself into a mental hospital, and states that he has violent sexual urges towards children and fears he may not be able to control himself much longer -- well, this is the type of person who needs and deserves our help, and can actually benefit from it.

 

This is an excellent point not yet explored in this thread.

 

On the other hand, if a pedophile is caught after years of abusing who knows how many kids (therefore causing them irreparable trauma), and he then throws up his hands and says: "I'm mentally ill! I need help!", well...

 

Yes sudden victimization pleas, sudden mental illness or retardation, and sudden religious conversions are common currency in prisons.

 

I think the reason pedophiles are hard to cure simply because what they do gives them pleasure, and because it is still, despite everything, easy to get away with doing what they do. Children don't vote, they don't pass laws and they don't pay taxes. Pedophiles do.

 

Exactly. The only defenders of children are the rest of us.

 

This is a very hard question. The fact is that the recividism rate for pedophiles, especially those focused on children of their own sex, is staggeringly high. I think at the moment it is more important to contain this phenomenon than to debate about what causes it. To answer your question, people under 18 can be monsters too, and letting them loose in society will only cause harm -- as terrible as that sounds

 

Hard choices indeed. It is true that people under 18 have less judgment than the rest of us. However, instead of having improved with age, the sexual offender often seems to have regressed. It is almost as if the rationalizations that go with committing a crime the rest of us find abhorrent blunt their conscience. I am not saying they're all sociopaths. More that they never fully developed an ethical system.

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