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Do you really kill mountain lions in US Canada


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I disagree, can you show me a scientific study that agree with you in the circumstances we are talking about?

No, I can't, but do I really have to? I'm talking about enjoyment, not necessity.

 

Do you hunt or fish? How much contact with wild animals do you have regularly? Death, hunting and killing are a completely natural part of our world, humans are a natural part of that as well and hunting is a natural human activity...

Is nature a good moral guideline for humans? Probably not. To hell with what's natural. I like to live to higher standards than what nature gives us. If you like what's natural so much, then why don't you go live in a cave, wearing a bear pelt? Time and time again do I read about how it's good because it's natural. What a load of bull droppings.

 

Nature isn't nice, and I thank all that's good and wholesome that my life is largely unnatural.

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Well, is getting joy out of killing sadistic?

No, or at least it shouldn't be. Sadism is taking joy and/or sexual gratification from causing pain and/or suffering in another. Hunters want a clean kill with as little suffering to the animal as possible. Most of them pride themselves on being able to put an animal down with one clean thoracic shot which is intended to minimize the suffering of the animal. Sort of sounds like the opposite of a sadist to me.

 

Torturing an animal isn't hunting - it's torture. It's no different than torturing a human being - it's wrong, and shouldn't be tolerated. I will agree that cruelty to animals is a warning sign or other, more serious, behavioral issues and demonstrates a general lack of empathy.

 

The sticking point is whether hunting is "cruel" by definition. I doubt we'd reach a consensus on the matter.

Edited by Greg H.
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Well, is getting joy out of killing sadistic?

 

A true sadist might try to keep it alive and terrified for a time.

We often conflate suffering with death, but this is erroneous. Death is a loss of happiness.

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All we can empirically say is that death is cessation of the chemical processes we refer to as being alive. We can no more scientifically prove what happens after death than we can prove what happened before the beginning the of the universe.

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All we can empirically say is that death is cessation of the chemical processes we refer to as being alive. We can no more scientifically prove what happens after death than we can prove what happened before the beginning the of the universe.

 

:o I didn't know you were a switch!

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No, I can't, but do I really have to? I'm talking about enjoyment, not necessity.

 

 

Is nature a good moral guideline for humans? Probably not. To hell with what's natural. I like to live to higher standards than what nature gives us. If you like what's natural so much, then why don't you go live in a cave, wearing a bear pelt? Time and time again do I read about how it's good because it's natural. What a load of bull droppings.

 

Nature isn't nice, and I thank all that's good and wholesome that my life is largely unnatural.

 

 

Do you understand the concept that animals must be thinned out due to the fact that they are no longer limited by natural means? I wonder if your take would change if you were being eaten alive by a bear or a mountain lion in your backyard or on a city street. In some cases it does have to do with food, humans still hunt for food, in some cases it both has to do with controlling natural populations and food, yes even large predators are eaten but mostly this applies to animals like deer. Where i live we do our best to live with things like bears or alligators but they cannot be allowed to live inside areas where people live. A controlled cull reduces the pressure for animals like bears to move into urban areas.

 

You seem to have the impression that hunters are sadistic humans that enjoy killing and hurting animals. Not hunting results in far more suffering and death than hunting...

Edited by Moontanman
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It's not control I have an issue with, it's the idea of killing for pleasure.

 

I think you are confusing hunting for pleasure and killing for pleasure. Your typical hunter is not someone who used to torture cats when he was 9 1/2 years old.

 

No, I can't, but do I really have to? I'm talking about enjoyment, not necessity.

 

Yes, you really have to.

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Yeah, I go fishing. I'm catching and releasing the same fish I caught 14 years ago and watching them grow.

 

 

I generally fish in the ocean but I do release any fish i am not going to eat or use as bait, I see no reason to kill just to be killing...

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Perspective. It's how we learn new things. It's how we get "the whole story", so we don't make rash judgments that might compound the problem.

 

So, basically I have to let others tell me whether or not enjoying killing is sick? I don't think so. Anyone who enjoys hunting is mentally disturbed, period.

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Anyone who enjoys hunting is mentally disturbed, period.

That's your opinion. For a good part of human history, you hunted or you starved. There are still peoples, such as Intuit tribes who still subsist on hunting. Are they mentally disturbed?

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That's your opinion. For a good part of human history, you hunted or you starved. There are still peoples, such as Intuit tribes who still subsist on hunting. Are they mentally disturbed?

 

Am I talking about necessity? No, I'm talking about ENJOYMENT. Two completely different things.

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Why do I need others to tell me what is and isn't sick and evil?

"Psychopath" has a very specific meaning. Unless you are qualified to judge psychopathy and have done the proper studies yourself, the only way to know who are psychopaths is to get the information from others.

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"Psychopath" has a very specific meaning. Unless you are qualified to judge psychopathy and have done the proper studies yourself, the only way to know who are psychopaths is to get the information from others.

 

Here's a starting point.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=psychopathy+questionnaire+site%3Anih.gov&t=canonical

Found this through the citations. Youth Psychopathic Traits Inventory (YPI) -Table 2

 

Saw this too.

Psychopathy consists of an amalgamation of traits, including glibness, superficiality, lack of remorse, callousness, and impulsivity, in conjunction with the violation of rules and social norms (Hare, 1996; Hare, 2003)

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3962268/

Edited by MonDie
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"Psychopath" has a very specific meaning. Unless you are qualified to judge psychopathy and have done the proper studies yourself, the only way to know who are psychopaths is to get the information from others.

 

Sure, fine. Doesn't make killing for fun any less evil.

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Am I talking about necessity? No, I'm talking about ENJOYMENT. Two completely different things.

You're creating a false dichotomy. You can in fact both need to hunt and enjoy hunting. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

:o I didn't know you were a switch!

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Humans who enjoy hunting make better hunters. Humans who did not hunt well did not populate the planet.

 

So most humans are built to enjoy hunting - like swimming, singing, eating cooked food, or using tools and making things, it's not trivial "fun".

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Humans who enjoy hunting make better hunters. Humans who did not hunt well did not populate the planet.

 

So most humans are built to enjoy hunting - like swimming, singing, eating cooked food, or using tools and making things, it's not trivial "fun".

Brilliant argument.; we must do it because we enjoy it. Men who raped the most women had the most children across the widest genetic landscape ...it's not "trivial fun." We must resurrect this ancient activity in the same spirit.

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Humans who enjoy hunting make better hunters. Humans who did not hunt well did not populate the planet.

 

So most humans are built to enjoy hunting - like swimming, singing, eating cooked food, or using tools and making things, it's not trivial "fun".

 

The same goes for any sport. This isn't unique to hunting.

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Humans who enjoy hunting make better hunters. Humans who did not hunt well did not populate the planet.

 

And there was me thinking that we enjoyed a massive food surplus in the West due to farming.

Thanks for letting me know that all the food I eat is hunted.

 

An alternative point of view sees the beginning of agriculture as the beginning of civilisation. It's only when people settle in one place that they have much time for developing culture art etc.

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And there was me thinking that we enjoyed a massive food surplus in the West due to farming.

Thanks for letting me know that all the food I eat is hunted.

 

An alternative point of view sees the beginning of agriculture as the beginning of civilisation. It's only when people settle in one place that they have much time for developing culture art etc.

Good point

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Am I talking about necessity? No, I'm talking about ENJOYMENT. Two completely different things.

 

 

I'll ask you again: Do you understand that not hunting results in far more suffering in the long run than hunting? Populations of animals get out of control and eat all the available food and then starve. The ecosystem needs a top predator to remain in a healthy balance, if you allow natural predators to do this then you would have to have top predators in areas where humans live. Are you willing to tolerate the occasional child to be taken by a bear or mountain lion? When you are out enjoying a nature trail or jogging are you willing to risk being prey?

 

I know lots of hunters, I used to hunt, I also fish and I eat what I catch, should I be labeled as insane because i enjoy those things?

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