jebaqpt Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) Famous sayings "Never judge a book by its cover" Never judge someone on their past because they are no longer at that stage in their life. Never judge a person by his/her appearance. You don't have the slightest idea what they've been through. Bible says "Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned." I have read a touching story, you too must read A doctor entered the hospital in hurry after being called in for an urgent surgery. He answered the call asap, changed his clothes & went directly to the surgery block. He found the boys father pacing in the hall waiting for the doctor. On seeing him, the dad yelled: Why did U take all this time to come? Dont U know that my sons life is in danger? Dont U have any sense of responsibility? The doctor smiled & said: I am sorry, I wasnt in the hospital & I came as fast as I could after receiving the call And now, I wish youd calm down so that I can do my work Calm down?! What if your son was in this room right now, would U calm down? If your own son dies now what will U do?? said the father angrily The doctor smiled again & replied: I will say what Job said in the Holy Book From dust we came & to dust we return, blessed be the name of God. Doctors cannot prolong lives. Go & intercede for your son, we will do our best by Gods grace Giving advises when were not concerned is so easy Murmured the father. The surgery took some hours after which the doctor went out happy, Thank goodness!, your son is saved! And without waiting for the fathers reply he carried on his way running. If U have any question, ask the nurse!! Why is he so arrogant? He couldnt wait some minutes so that I ask about my sons state Commented the father when seeing the nurse minutes after the doctor left. The nurse answered, tears coming down her face: His son died yesterday in a road accident, he was in the burial when we called him for your sons surgery. And now that he saved your sons life, he left running to finish his sons burial. Is it right to judge others by the way we see? How you judge others? Edited May 6, 2015 by hypervalent_iodine Advertising links removed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Is it right to judge others by the way we see? Maybe not, but first impressions count. How you judge others? Not by the bible, that is for sure. On a personal note I would have been very angry if a doctor started to quote the bible at me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Is it right to judge others by the way we see? How you judge others? We judge people all the time, when a bedraggled unkempt man/woman, who obviously hasn’t washed in a while, approaches its natural to think their homeless. A well/expensively dressed person tends to make us think their successful or wealthy. There’s nothing wrong in that type of judgement it’s almost automatic. The problems arise when we act on that judgement, like avoiding the tramp looking person (in case they beg for money) or fawning on the well dressed person (in case they give us money). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Judgement is pattern-recognition, and I don't think we could turn that off even if we wanted to. We watch for others to fit patterns we understand how to deal with. The OP seems to use a specific definition of judgement that carries a special weight. I don't see the problem using my judgement when approached by two strangers, one who smiles and offers his hand to shake, and the other who looks at me sullenly with a frown and won't come any closer than six feet. This type of judgement happens all the time. Acting as a judge is perhaps closer to the OP. Sitting in judgement over the actions of another and claiming the right to say whether the behavior is good or bad, harmful or helpful, right or wrong. Or is it OK to judge behavior like that, as long as you don't condemn the whole person? If I see someone cheat another person intentionally, is it OK for me to judge that person's actions as bad as long as I don't judge the whole person as bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gees Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Jebaqpt; Please consider the following: Famous sayings "Never judge a book by its cover"Never judge someone on their past because they are no longer at that stage in their life.Never judge a person by his/her appearance. You don't have the slightest idea what they've been through. The saying is; "Don't judge a book by its cover.", not never judge a book by its cover. There is a difference. This means that you should not judge something, or someone, by the initial impression, but need to look closer to see whether than initial impression is an accurate interpretation of the person/thing/event before making a judgement. It does not mean that you should summarily dismiss your initial impression, as it could be correct. Bible says "Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned." This may be true in "God's" eyes, but it is not true in reality. If you don't believe me, just ask a traffic cop. I have read a touching story, you too must read There are lots of touching stories, and they can go in either direction, so they prove nothing. The truth is that Phi For All is correct, we can not turn it off. Our prejudices, just like our instincts, come from the sub/unconscious aspect of mind. We have no real control over them and only know about them after we have reacted. The only thing that we can do is to reserve judgement until we have more than just the initial impression -- which assumes that we have time to reserve judgement. Also consider that by denying our right to judge situations/people, you would be denying our right to wisdom. Wisdom is the ability to pre-judge a situation/person so that we can determine the probable consequences by using our intelligence, experience, and instincts. I like wisdom. Gee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Famous sayings "Never judge a book by its cover" OK, so why do the put designs on the covers of books? And, on a related note, how else can you judge them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 OK, so why do the put designs on the covers of books? Lol. It's so you don't judge the book by its cover price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 ...The problems arise when we act on that judgement, like avoiding the tramp looking person (in case they beg for money) or fawning on the well dressed person (in case they give us money). An astute thought. I like it... the person wary of a beggar is naught but a beggar himself when the opportunity arises. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 OK, so why do the put designs on the covers of books? And, on a related note, how else can you judge them? By their contents? Of course, it's easier to judge by their covers, which is why we do it, and why so much effort goes into designing covers that will convince people to buy what's inside of them without any relationship with the quality of the book. Cover judgements and first impressions exist because we don't have the time or energy to invest in thoroughly researching every book, person or idea that comes our way before deciding how to react to it. Unfortunately, that tendency is what makes it so easy to spread some truly stupid ideas by coating them in a thin, crowd-pleasing cover that most people won't bother to look past. "If global warming came from humans, then why is there still snow?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAstroViz Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Judging someone in a negative way is very unethical. Famous sayings "Never judge a book by its cover" is just a metaphor for judging other people and not even knowing them at all... The metaphor literally says "Read the book, before trying to say it's bad" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Judging someone in a negative way is very unethical. But judgement is always contextual. If I see a man stagger out of a bar at 10 am, I could certainly judge him negatively with regard to whether he should operate a motor vehicle or not. It might be unethical to judge him to be a bad person in that same context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gees Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Phi for All; Please consider: But judgement is always contextual. If I see a man stagger out of a bar at 10 am, I could certainly judge him negatively with regard to whether he should operate a motor vehicle or not. It might be unethical to judge him to be a bad person in that same context. I knew a man who passed out while driving his car. He was sitting at an intersection when it happened, and his car drifted into the intersection causing a blockage of traffic in all directions. Everyone was angry. When the police arrived, they actually had to break his driver's side window in order to get him out because he would not respond. The police were not gentle because they could see the beer cans on the floor and knew the man was drunk. Later they learned that the man had actually had a stroke and had not been drinking at all. So sometimes the context can distort the meaning and cause us to make bad judgments. Although I will agree that a man who staggers out of a bar at 10 am should not drive, is he staggering because he is drunk, or because he is ill? Does he need our contempt or our help? Sometimes it is hard to know. My Aunt would often cause people to get a wrong impression of her. One day a woman told me that my Aunt always stares at her, but never talks to her, so she thought that my Aunt was a little snobby. I smiled and explained that my Aunt stares because she is trying to read your lips, and does not talk because she is deaf as a post. Deafness causes all kinds of misimpressions. Gee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I knew a man who passed out while driving his car. He was sitting at an intersection when it happened, and his car drifted into the intersection causing a blockage of traffic in all directions. Everyone was angry. When the police arrived, they actually had to break his driver's side window in order to get him out because he would not respond. The police were not gentle because they could see the beer cans on the floor and knew the man was drunk. Later they learned that the man had actually had a stroke and had not been drinking at all. So sometimes the context can distort the meaning and cause us to make bad judgments. I don't see the bad judgement on the part of the police in your story. Whether or not the man had been drinking, the evidence they had to go on was beer cans on the floor and a man unresponsive in his car, blocking traffic. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "ungentle". Police shouldn't be mishandling anybody. Although I will agree that a man who staggers out of a bar at 10 am should not drive, is he staggering because he is drunk, or because he is ill? Does he need our contempt or our help? Sometimes it is hard to know. I didn't offer contempt. I offered a judgement that this man shouldn't drive a car. I don't care if he's drunk or just sick, he shouldn't drive. That's a negative judgement, but it's not an unethical one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Are people who make judgements wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtone Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) Back when vinyl records were standard, the covers were a big deal - musicians put time and effort into what became more than mere packaging. I found that one could, with much better than chance accuracy, judge a recording by its cover. People put time and effort into their packaging, so their character shows in it. It's just not a simple job, to evaluate. I remember a few years ago listening to some old folks talk about a scary experience picking up a hitchhiker, which surprised them because he had looked so nice: Nylon windbreaker over clean clothes, neatly combed hair, shined shoes, clean shaven, ready smile. And I remember thinking that the look they described would have struck me, a fellow member of that thug's generation, as clear warning of somebody up to no good, a predator. On the other hand, I once picked up a huge, dirty, bearded, black leather booted and jacketed guy at midnight hitchhiking Highway 61 a couple miles north of Hastings, MN - perfectly safe. I drove him home to Inver Grove Heights - the Hastings police had confiscated his motorcycle for some reason of personal grudge, and he gave me a beer (I was 17) and showed me his sailboat nearly built in his back yard. The hull was reinforced concrete. There was simply no way a guy looking like that would be hitchhiking at night without a good reason, and grateful for the ride. Meet him in a bar, drunk, and I would be much more wary of casual approach. Edited May 9, 2015 by overtone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gees Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Phi for All; Please consider my following thoughts. I don't see the bad judgement on the part of the police in your story. Whether or not the man had been drinking, the evidence they had to go on was beer cans on the floor and a man unresponsive in his car, blocking traffic.I suppose it depends on what you mean by "ungentle". Police shouldn't be mishandling anybody. Well, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and we will often rethink our judgements in hindsight. What if it had been a heart attack rather than a stroke? I don't know much about strokes, but I do know that one minute can be the difference between life and death in a heart attack case. The police did not necessarily "mishandle anybody", but they were in no hurry to call for medical help. Why? Because they had no idea that it was necessary. Consider the following statement from my first post in this thread: "The only thing that we can do is to reserve judgement until we have more than just the initial impression -- which assumes that we have time to reserve judgement." Police do not often have time to "reserve judgement" and must act immediately to avoid danger. This puts them in a position where they are going to make mistakes -- it is impossible not to -- and when they do make mistakes, it often becomes news headlines. So, although we should not "judge a book by its cover", there are some people/professions where the luxury of reserving judgement is just not available. I didn't offer contempt. I offered a judgement that this man shouldn't drive a car. I don't care if he's drunk or just sick, he shouldn't drive. That's a negative judgement, but it's not an unethical one. I did not accuse you of anything. We agree that you did make a negative judgement, but it was the association that I was considering. Nowhere in your story did you mention a road, a vehicle, or even car keys, but you associated staggering with drunk driving. Now it could be that you intended to mention a vehicle, or you could be a proponent of better drunk driving laws, or you could have had a bad experience with a drunk driver, or you might have wanted to be a police officer, or maybe you are a police officer, but you made the association. I did not make that association. I have often wondered if the saying, "judge not, lest you be judged" is more about what a person reveals when they make a judgement, rather than it being a reference to a final reward. We tell a lot about ourselves when we make a judgement, especially when the judgement is made on first impressions. I am a woman with a distinctly female mind, so my first thought is about the internal, as that is a woman's perspective. So when I read that someone was "staggering", my first thought is what internal thing is causing them to stagger -- drink, drugs, illness, shock? I am also a holistic thinker, so right and wrong are some of my last and least important considerations. If I were to take a guess, I would say that you are male as your first consideration was how the "staggering" would affect the external -- as in drinking and driving. I would also guess that you are a linear thinker because you seem to put great store in wrong and right, and probably believe in progress too. These are just guesses, and I have no wish to offend you. The point is that when we make judgements, we reveal a lot about ourselves, laying ourselves open to judgement. Psychology calls this "projecting", as we tend to project our own motives, experiences, values on the people around us. Gee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 This isn't a flippant question Are people who make judgements wrong? If they are not wrong then there's no issue to discuss. If they are wrong, than you are making a judgement about them and you are, by your own claim, wrong. So, which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 The 2012 James Mackenzie lecture at the Royal College of General Practitioners by the late Professor Helen Lester has much of worth to add to the OP story. Actual facts, figures and most of all, compassion. The first few minutes of the lecture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqyACm5OQOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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