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How can Human Beings Be So Cruel To Other Human Beings (Split From Canadians & Aliens)


Ant Sinclair
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Iam most proud of anything I have ever done in My life in the fact that I have saved six lives all at different times and all from drowning, one of these people even bullied Me when were young and I still pulled Him out of the water. If there are only Human Beings on this planet how can other Human Beings be so cruel to others and treat them like they do. Absolutely every problem on this planet could be corrected in a better way by scientists and science rather than by belligerance and those that seem to like it. I honestly can't comprehend that Man-Kind alone could become so "Evil". I realise there are many amazing minds on here so please explain to Me why all the terrible things that happen do if there is no outside influence.

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  • Some bad things happen because people are careless or incompetent.

Some bad things happen because people can be horrid and cruel.

Some bad things happen because of natural disasters or accidents.

Some bad things happen because of disease, predators, etc.

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1. I (or my tribe, group, debate club, etc) are superior to yours, so I will thwonk you with my club.

2. You have something I (or my tribe, et al) feel entitled to, so I will thwonk you with my club.

3. Your rules do not apply to me (or my tribe, etc), so while I may not be thwonking you with my club now, I am free to do so at any time.

 

At the end of the day, humans are territorial, possessive, covetous, and arrogant. Especially large groups of them. This makes for a bad combination, in most instances.

 

And we aren't the only species to exhibit some, or all, or these behaviors. I wantch my cats steal toys from each other all the time and sit on them. They don't play with them, they just don't want the other cats to play with them.

Edited by Greg H.
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  • Some bad things happen because people are careless or incompetent.
  • Some bad things happen because people can be horrid and cruel.
  • Some bad things happen because of natural disasters or accidents.
  • Some bad things happen because of disease, predators, etc.

And so would it follow that if a family/families of psychopaths that were horrible and cruel took control of the world and stayed in control, cruel and horrible happenings would go on forever until these families were relieved of their control?

1. I (or my tribe, group, debate club, etc) are superior to yours, so I will thwonk you with my club.

2. You have something I (or my tribe, et al) feel entitled to, so I will thwonk you with my club.

3. Your rules do not apply to me (or my tribe, etc), so while I may not be thwonking you with my club now, I am free to do so at any time.

 

At the end of the day, humans are territorial, possessive, covetous, and arrogant. Especially large groups of them. This makes for a bad combination, in most instances.

 

And we aren't the only species to exhibit some, or all, or these behaviors. I wantch my cats steal toys from each other all the time and sit on them. They don't play with them, they just don't want the other cats to play with them.

When We are growing up and We are taught to be kind, courteous etc, aren't these kind of teachings meant to lead us away from animal like behaviour and make Us into Human Beings?

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And so would it follow that if a family/families of psychopaths that were horrible and cruel took control of the world and stayed in control, cruel and horrible happenings would go on forever until these families were relieved of their control?

 

I don't think it even requires psychopaths. Maybe anyone who wants to be in control has a nasty side to them. But even a perfectly kind and benevolent leader wouldn't be able to stop people doing bad things.

 

When We are growing up and We are taught to be kind, courteous etc, aren't these kind of teachings meant to lead us away from animal like behaviour and make Us into Human Beings?

 

Indeed. Although I don't know about the "make Us into Human Beings" bit. We are human beings, that is part of the problem.

 

But the lessons don't always work (because people are not naturally like that), some parents don't try and teach their children to be kind, if children experience abuse then they are more likely to abuse others when they grow up, and so on and so on.

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And so would it follow that if a family/families of psychopaths that were horrible and cruel took control of the world and stayed in control, cruel and horrible happenings would go on forever until these families were relieved of their control?

 

When We are growing up and We are taught to be kind, courteous etc, aren't these kind of teachings meant to lead us away from animal like behaviour and make Us into Human Beings?

Societal mores are, by definition, defined by the society. Our society values those qualities, and so they are taught to our young because that's the best time to ingrain the lessons. If you have a society that values different qualities, I expect those would be the ones they teach to their children (indeed, look at the comparisons between ancient Athens and ancient Sparta in terms of youth education).

 

Regardless, we are no less human without these qualities. Nor are we less of an animal with them. We may not be accepatable to the society we find ourselves a member of, but we are still humans.

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Iam most proud of anything I have ever done in My life in the fact that I have saved six lives all at different times and all from drowning, one of these people even bullied Me when were young and I still pulled Him out of the water. If there are only Human Beings on this planet how can other Human Beings be so cruel to others and treat them like they do. Absolutely every problem on this planet could be corrected in a better way by scientists and science rather than by belligerance and those that seem to like it. I honestly can't comprehend that Man-Kind alone could become so "Evil". I realise there are many amazing minds on here so please explain to Me why all the terrible things that happen do if there is no outside influence.

 

 

 

The truism that seems to sum this up is, bullies aren’t born but made.

 

A well socialised individual of whatever species (those that I’ve observed at least) tends towards sympathy rather than aggression, sharing rather than selfishness and kindness rather than cruelty.

 

Pity should be divided between the victims and the perpetrators.

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The truism that seems to sum this up is, bullies aren’t born but made.

 

A well socialised individual of whatever species (those that I’ve observed at least) tends towards sympathy rather than aggression, sharing rather than selfishness and kindness rather than cruelty.

 

Pity should be divided between the victims and the perpetrators.

Put two 12-18 month old children to play together with a few toys, will they share? Kind people are made, selfish is the natural state. This proactive intelligent behaviour modification in our offspring from their 'natural' behaviour is a major part of what defines us a species.

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Put two 12-18 month old children to play together with a few toys, will they share? Kind people are made, selfish is the natural state. This proactive intelligent behaviour modification in our offspring from their 'natural' behaviour is a major part of what defines us a species.

 

 

Selfish doesn’t equal cruel but many studies (which I don’t have time to dig up right now) show fairness is an integral part of primates behaviour.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Belief that all human beings are equally deserving of life is really very recent - an invention of 18th century Enlightenment philosophy. Before that the golden rule of behavior was: "be merciful to your people, harsh to outsiders". Long periods of relatively peaceful coexistence were known but every group had some other group of people supposedly not good enough to be alive.

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Well, it really depends. The enlightenment period coincided to some degree with colonization ambitions and there was a significant overlap in terms of racist and similar sentiments among enlightenment philosophers.

 

In fact, racism (i.e. defining quality of human populations based on certain traits) is a fairly modern concept. Looking at texts from Roman times, for example the loyalties are defined culturally, with little distinction or referring to biological traits (such as skin colour) as we are accustomed to (again, I guess, a byproduct of school of thoughts that coincided with colonization, but that is only my guess, I have not actually dug into literature for that).

 

That being said, there is a deeply biological element to altruism and reciprocity that we find in a number of animals but also in children. Note that biological also means a certain degree of learning, as while spontaneous altruistic behaviour is observed in a number of animals (including human) they can be reinforced (or discouraged) by the behaviour the individual encounters.

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We are a diverse group who usually get along, even if we need a moderator to manage disputes and other bs. Such a person has been common in tribes (groups of people) for a very long time. Such people need to be respected by others in the group, for them to be successful without using force all the time. People like leaders as moderators instead of bosses, but either can keep a group together.

 

Unfortunately, that model breaks down when the group grows too large, and scaling by various groups interacting doesn't seem to work well, either. Although, there may be a way that we don't know about. The conversation in groups that currently exist is not much about how can we improve inter-group communications. In fact, it is more often, "Lets go to war with some group." We can make an effort to improve inter-group communications, as more people do it, society will improve. There are people who either cannot or will not participate, and society must deal with them. However, we should do so with as much kindness as possible, because fear and hate make us do bad things.

 

Understanding why people do awful things to other people may be useful, and help society exclude fewer people, but it is not necessary to be kind and try to improve the world.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Humans aren't the only species on this planet. Whats more confusing is how humans can be so cruel to other species. How people can be alright with enslaving and slaughtering animals when we've evolved beyond the need to eat them is a mystery to me. Its deeply wrong on so many levels. Its a mystery, but at the same time I have some understanding of the root of all evil (the ego) and its mechanisms. Its somewhat like a parasite that has infected humanity. The vast majority of people seem to be like hosts infected by this parasite, but a small minority (sociopaths/psychopaths) seem to be like empty shells controlled entirely by this parasite.

Edited by horsebox
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  • 4 months later...

No one cares. Theres no forethinking. Were a species on the brink. People are lazy and think about the here and now. We have animal insticts hardwired into our brains and theres not enough good people to balance the ignorance of the majority.

Humans aren't the only species on this planet. Whats more confusing is how humans can be so cruel to other species. How people can be alright with enslaving and slaughtering animals when we've evolved beyond the need to eat them is a mystery to me. Its deeply wrong on so many levels. Its a mystery, but at the same time I have some understanding of the root of all evil (the ego) and its mechanisms. Its somewhat like a parasite that has infected humanity. The vast majority of people seem to be like hosts infected by this parasite, but a small minority (sociopaths/psychopaths) seem to be like empty shells controlled entirely by this parasite.

Have you not thought were the foreign body on this object?

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  • 4 months later...

How much violence and cruelty involves people believing the victims deserve it? Consider popular television shows where quite horrific acts of violence against people that we are shown, usually clearly and unequivocally, are 'bad' are the major points of gratification for viewers. When viewers know who the perpetrator is, having a cop break in without a warrant, beat them to get crucial information, lock them in a cell with a brutal rapist, is no longer a violation of the rights of someone who should be subject to trial, with a presumption of innocence, but somehow becomes an acceptable and even an admirable act. I suspect too much of the worst violence humans have committed has been done with the conviction that they deserved it and is celebrated at least as much as it is condemned.

 

I recall reading about a study (sorry i can't find the source) that showed people got pleasure responses when seeing a thief being punished; it was shown to be very satisfying to see the bad guy get his just desserts. Except that, in reality the thief and victim were actors. Fortunately the punishment was not real either, otherwise people would be getting pleasure from harm done to innocent actors for doing their job. Unfortunately, in reality there is no thorough investigation and weighing of evidence required for an individual to get such an emotional response; just someone saying 'they did it' can be enough. Just being the wrong ethnicity or religion and similar in appearance to such an individual can too often be enough. War and the marketing of war involves this kind of feelings of gratification from violence against people who are deemed bad and community support is underpinned by clearly portraying the enemy as deserving what happens.

 

It makes me a firm supporter of rules of law, accountability, due process and open, public access to information. It disturbs me to see the popularising of the avenging vigilante - or secret agencies - who exacts 'justice' outside the law. And disturbed that the long lasing and societally damaging consequences of people and groups taking the law into their own hands are so rarely portrayed and examined.

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  • 2 weeks later...

i think that being crual to another human being can have different cause its can be from the selective natural selection we tend to harm the people who are not strong or smart enough to deffend them self , or its can be a mental ilness some people enjoy watching other people suffering

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To the OP, I think perhaps you'd enjoy reading 'The Origins of Virtue' by Matt Ridley and it's an engaging and accessible history of the development of human morality. It's particularly interesting because it attempts to explain human social behaviour from an evolutionary perspective rather than a philosophical one. You're being pessimistic; you're not kind to others because you're 'good', and those few who are not not 'evil'. It's much more complex than that. You saved six lives because these genes have been passed onto you and it's not about doing good or bad but cooperating. Humans are cooperative beings and part of this behaviour is to do 'favours' (for better lack of a term) for others in your tribe/community/commune etc in hope that the favour will be reciprocated when you in turn need something.

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There is religion, that somehow sets much hate between different religions. Like in the Islam it is allowed to kill others if they are not amongst your religion. Actually it is not just allowed, it is demanded. In Christianity there is the hate for Jewish people, since they think the Jews murdered Jesus, and so again setting an allotment of hate and murder. That's for religion, that may be reason number 1.

 

I have made a post about online games and the disturbed world going on there. Alot of hate, disdane and profanity. There are sometimes sayings like "expect your computer to get hacked", they get into it so much. It seems to be alot of stress on the young ones, and maybe even on the older, to achieve and be successful. Or in another word competition. I would say even hardcore competition, that leads them to lose their morality.

 

I will give another example from my personal life, as to hate and violence. I live in Israel, the city of Tel Aviv. It is a custom here for people casually walking past you in the street to throw comments at your face. These comments are such as "You are masturbating" or "You are masturbating on me", and other comments. This in hebrew of course, I'm not sure if it exists in other places outside Isreal, but I have been in the USA and I think I remember it there too, my memory not being the best from that time. Anyway these comments set alot of hate in me and even violence. When I was psychotic a few years back I would confront these people and even get close to fighting them physically. I even bought tear gas and a knife for self defense in case of a fight.

Even though this was a while back, I still hold much contempt for these people. The comments are still going on, but I am more stable and care for them less. What makes a stranger in the street throw dirty comments at someone he doesn't know at all ?

It seems to be a sort of fashion, that grabbed everyone, even to a sort of competition. What I can attest to myself is that these comments can make me very mad, even to the point of wanting to murder someone else. Since they almost all do it, I can attest to myself that I basically hate almost everyone (at least in Israel). This comment throwing comes I believe from arrogance and high self esteem, wanting to sort of fight another person in "legitimate" ways. I guess fighting is in the nature of man, and this is the form that it has shaped up to in these modern times, governed by police and the law. I myself do not throw around these comments, I never have.

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It is a custom here for people casually walking past you in the street to throw comments at your face. These comments are such as "You are masturbating" or "You are masturbating on me", and other comments. This in hebrew of course, I'm not sure if it exists in other places outside Isreal, but I have been in the USA and I think I remember it there too, my memory not being the best from that time.

That's a pretty explicit thing to say to a stranger on the street, with no provocation. It makes no sense as a hurled epithet, and I've NEVER heard it here in the USA. It doesn't sound like something one would say idly. I feel we're getting only one side of a very weird story.

 

I have to ask. Were you masturbating? Were you masturbating on them? Is that why they said those things?

 

Anyway these comments set alot of hate in me and even violence. When I was psychotic a few years back I would confront these people and even get close to fighting them physically. I even bought tear gas and a knife for self defense in case of a fight.

Don't you think it might have been the psychosis, aggravated by what you perceived as inappropriate comments thrown in your face?

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That's a pretty explicit thing to say to a stranger on the street, with no provocation. It makes no sense as a hurled epithet, and I've NEVER heard it here in the USA. It doesn't sound like something one would say idly. I feel we're getting only one side of a very weird story.

 

I have to ask. Were you masturbating? Were you masturbating on them? Is that why they said those things?

 

Don't you think it might have been the psychosis, aggravated by what you perceived as inappropriate comments thrown in your face?

"Were you masturbating? Were you masturbating on them? Is that why they said those things?"

Of course not. When I did masturbate in the past, in my younger life, it was only privately and unseen by anyone.

 

"Don't you think it might have been the psychosis, aggravated by what you perceived as inappropriate comments thrown in your face?"

This is real, I heard it a bazillion times and also I remember once in a store, a customer complaining to the boss there that some worker said these things to him. He was very angry and loud, was kind of hard to miss. And there are other examples that I remember clearly. This isn't my imagination.

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That's a pretty explicit thing to say to a stranger on the street, with no provocation. It makes no sense as a hurled epithet, and I've NEVER heard it here in the USA. It doesn't sound like something one would say idly. I feel we're getting only one side of a very weird story.

 

+1

 

It is a very strange thing to say indeed, although I speak a second language at home and sometimes when I try to translate a saying that is relevant into English, it just doesn't have the same meaning or sounds like a very bizarre thing to say which you just wouldn't use in English.

 

Eshel, perhaps it is your severe reactions which arise such comments from people; don't you think carrying a knife and tear gas is an excessive retaliation on just words? Ignoring them may have a more profound effect. Even so, comments like this are not common, most people understand there is a minimum level of behavioural expectations to be accepted in society. Unless they're very intoxicated, mentally unstable or very aggressive/violent then they have no real reason to be so verbally insulting to your face. This behaviour is not just genetic but environmental too, children learn from a young age what is acceptable and what is not. Therefore, as Phi said, I don't think we're hearing the full story.

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+1

 

It is a very strange thing to say indeed, although I speak a second language at home and sometimes when I try to translate a saying that is relevant into English, it just doesn't have the same meaning or sounds like a very bizarre thing to say which you just wouldn't use in English.

 

Eshel, perhaps it is your severe reactions which arise such comments from people; don't you think carrying a knife and tear gas is an excessive retaliation on just words? Ignoring them may have a more profound effect. Even so, comments like this are not common, most people understand there is a minimum level of behavioural expectations to be accepted in society. Unless they're very intoxicated, mentally unstable or very aggressive/violent then they have no real reason to be so verbally insulting to your face. This behaviour is not just genetic but environmental too, children learn from a young age what is acceptable and what is not. Therefore, as Phi said, I don't think we're hearing the full story.

Hmm .. I feel like I am at the psychiatrist's office. I really didn't think this would raise such skepticism. I guess you guys haven't experienced the likes of this and find it weird. Even here in israel when I speak about this it is considered weird, but it is just repressed by them. They are even lying I think, as they do know about the phenomenon and are just repressing it. Like for example if I would talk about this with my parents, they would deny/repress it for sure, but I have heard them both speak it themselves. I have one friend who I see eye to eye with, and I can talk to him about this, he knows it to be true as well. He even told me he let go of some friend of his that would talk to him this way.

 

"Therefore, as Phi said, I don't think we're hearing the full story."

What is missing ? I am not holding back anything. It is a solid truth.

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I had a roommate once who was a great guy. Nickname of Marius. Archaeologist major. Neopagan Druid priest. We all loved him. He would mutter and have conversations with himself a lot. What we didn't know was that Marius had paranoid delusional fantasies often, but he was very good at not letting them slip. If he walked down the street by himself, he'd have these very vivid fantasies that strangers were out to get him. Once in a while, we'd get a story from him about being cursed out on the bus, or a police officer beat him up.

 

Now, I'm not trying to do something as silly as diagnose you over the internet. I am completely unqualified. I'm just saying it is possible to be a great person and have a mentality that's different from other people.

Edited by kisai
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