it is fearful to talk about death.

[dimreepr]

I apologise , I understood you saying "you will take your chances" as neglecting religion and see how God will do with you then.

it does not need from you to take chances, the justice definition has been announced by God, and who represents law is God himself.

 

 

Have you ever wondered why god’s justice is meted out in seclusion?

 

You are more than welcome to stare at a finger; I choose to stare and wonder at the beauty of the heavens and rely on the natural justice of karma.

[Graeme M]

I don't know what point you are trying to make yahya515. If you choose to believe in a God, then live your life according to His laws and be comfortable that you will have lived a good life and will be rewarded after death. Easy. If you do not believe in God, then it's a bit trickier. But ultimately, without a belief in God, you are left with no idea what death will bring. Cessation of existence? Paradise? Reincarnation? You cannot know. So take comfort in the pleasures of the life you do lead. Or if your life is awful, take comfort in the promise of death.

 

I tend to think death is the end of Me. And being rather attached to Me, I try not to think too much about the end of Me...

[yahya515]

I don't know what point you are trying to make yahya515..........I try not to think too much about the end of Me...

I do not know why you bother yourself about the point I am trying to make, if you think religious discussion is meaningless, just skip it to another discussion, if you think it is meaningful participate in it . if you think you are able to stop it by persuading and making points about how it is meaningless ............ I think religious discussion is annoying to some people , they know the truth and ignoring it , if someone is talking about what they are ignoring they will bother because they just want to forget about it . like the one highlighted above.

Edited March 19, 2015 by yahya515

[Graeme M]

I am not saying discussion is meaningless, just that I don't understand what you are getting at. If you believe in God and an afterlife, then you shouldn't be fearful of death (unless you haven't lived your life well enough).

 

If you don't believe in God, then yes it could be scary to think of death, as indeed it is to me. The question of what death might mean for us, in a philosophical, non-religious sense, is an extremely interesting matter for discussion.

 

If that's what you want to discuss.

 

Or are you simply trying to convince us that God exists?

[yahya515]

I am not saying discussion is meaningless, just that I don't understand what you are getting at. If you believe in God and an afterlife, then you shouldn't be fearful of death (unless you haven't lived your life well enough).

 

If you don't believe in God, then yes it could be scary to think of death, as indeed it is to me. The question of what death might mean for us, in a philosophical, non-religious sense, is an extremely interesting matter for discussion.

 

If that's what you want to discuss.

 

Or are you simply trying to convince us that God exists?

I think I started the thread by talking purely about death , if you think the topic is interesting participate in it, if you think I am doing some preaching just skip that and participate in what you think is interesting , while religion is mainly dealing with death, I saw to share my thought about death from a religious perspective, as well as philosophically , I am not trying to convince anyone , religion itself says we can not see God we should believe in him without touchable evidence, as you and others in the science forum used to deal with touchable evidence that religion will never give to you, as I believe in God, I may some time share my thoughts about religion with others , the word convince above is not in its place , I try to show how we need religion in life , as we face problems like death and destiny, how we need religion whether it is logical or not , it is similar as talking about psychology and how religion gives calmness and content , and not how religion is logical

Edited March 20, 2015 by yahya515

[Graeme M]

I don't think religion is mainly about death is it?

 

I'm also not sure we need religion in life. I suspect human beings do need some framework of meaning in which to live but I'm not sure of the best way to provide that. Religion so often leads man into less than positive modes of behaviour - with no testable, quantifiable God, afterlife or knowledge of any soul, all we are left with is faith informed by other human beings. Which means it is not difficult to subvert people to the purpose of some elite.

 

I don't think for myself the act of dying itself is fearful, though the process of getting there may be, for example if I knew my end would be to stand in a cage and be burned alive. What I find fearful is the cessation of self. Once I AM dead it won't matter, as I shall not be conscious and I have many times been unconscious. There is nothing there. I am not aware of anything so I cannot fear while I am dead. It is the idea of death and cessation that is scary.

 

You suggest that God is not touchable and we should just believe, but that is faith and is not faith the ultimate surrender? Only through rational thought and inquiry can we make sense of the universe, faith alone has no implicit integrity. If I were to create a sect whose faith was to believe in a higher being who demanded human sacrifice and sex with children and only by believing in this being would I ultimately be delivered to paradise, am i wrong or right to practise my faith? If I abandon any kind of rational scrutiny of my faith, am i right or wrong to do so? Faith on its own can not offer any assurance of certainty, nor equally it cannot offer way to distinguish its inherent truth from an inherent falsehood.

 

If you think faith can be a mechanism for certainty, on what basis do you think that?

[yahya515]

 

Religion so often leads man into less than positive modes of behaviour - with no testable, quantifiable God, afterlife or knowledge of any soul, all we are left with is faith informed by other human beings. Which means it is not difficult to subvert people to the purpose of some elite.

 

I don't think for myself the act of dying itself is fearful, though the process of getting there may be, for example if I knew my end would be to stand in a cage and be burned alive. What I find fearful is the cessation of self. Once I AM dead it won't matter, as I shall not be conscious and I have many times been unconscious. There is nothing there. I am not aware of anything so I cannot fear while I am dead. It is the idea of death and cessation that is scary.

 

You suggest that God is not touchable and we should just believe, but that is faith and is not faith the ultimate surrender? Only through rational thought and inquiry can we make sense of the universe, faith alone has no implicit integrity. If I were to create a sect whose faith was to believe in a higher being who demanded human sacrifice and sex with children and only by believing in this being would I ultimately be delivered to paradise, am i wrong or right to practise my faith? If I abandon any kind of rational scrutiny of my faith, am i right or wrong to do so? Faith on its own can not offer any assurance of certainty, nor equally it cannot offer way to distinguish its inherent truth from an inherent falsehood.

 

If you think faith can be a mechanism for certainty, on what basis do you think that?

 

now you are trying to convince me that God does not exist , you do not need faith, faith is meaningless, and not logical, you do not need to believe in God, look at the bold sentences above .

 

you wrote previously " I don't know what point you are trying to make yahya515. .......Or are you simply trying to convince us that God exists?

"

trying to convince that God exists , that what you think I am doing , is the same as trying to convince that he does not exist , it is equal that we do not have evidence that God exist and we do not have evidence that he does not exist . you contradict yourself .

[Graeme M]

I think you are off on a tangent. I am not suggesting God does or does not exist. I am saying faith is a very blunt tool for establishing the matter either way.

 

In terms of evidence, there is plenty that God does not exist in a form such as the Bible might teach us. There may be a God, I cannot know. But I think I'd rather consider the matter from the perspective of rational inquiry than from faith.

[yahya515]

I think you are off on a tangent. I am not suggesting God does or does not exist. I am saying faith is a very blunt tool for establishing the matter either way.

 

what is faith ? I qoute from merriam webster " belief in the existence of God : strong religious feelings or beliefs " when you try to convince me not to have faith or faith is bad, it means you are trying to convince me that believing in the existence of God is bad and useless , according to the definition above of faith , and only if God does not exist that will be useful , that what I am talking about .

[hypervalent_iodine]

!

Moderator Note

This is not going to be a thread on whether or not God exists, so please cease with that line of discussion and stick to the topic in the title. If this continues, the thread will be closed.

Yahya, also be warned that your continued efforts to use this website to preach are noted by staff and if it continues, you may find yourself suspended.

Do not respond to this modnote in the thread.