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zazzzoom

Space Ends

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space is not nothing it is space

 

the world was thought of being infinitly large it was flat and the center of the universe because the sun went around it everyday

 

space is still mostly considered infinite

 

but when you find out that it is not infinite then space can take a shape and outside of space there is nothing

 

A word of advice... Logic only leads to revelations when there's a modicum of sanity involved.

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because, you could never reach the end :eek: , in the event space does have a shape and space is finite, then there is no "outside" od space, it does not exist, there is also no edge of space.

 

oh yes the bit about the sign at the end of space was sarcasm, I need to remember to use the sarcasm tags more often ;)

 

also all observations point to an infinite space, so either proove that in fact space ends by analizing the data, or shut the hell up about it

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Space doesn't end, it's either closed and wrapped back on itself with either positive or negative curvature, or it's flat and infinitely sized. Either way, there's no "edge" of space you could fly a spaceship off of any more than there's an "edge" of the world you could run a boat off of.

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show us your universe

and please include all matter energy time and space

My universe is actually rather big. If you've gone star gazing recently then you still wouldn't have any idea.

It's by no means infinite, but if you went for a really long ride you wouldn't hit the edge, in a vauge sense you'd end up back where you started.

 

I'd be happy to post all matter and energy, but this forum isn't hosted on a big enough box. If you've got one just a tad bigger than everything ever then I'll your server.

 

If you would care to show me all the matter and energy in your fingernail, acurately, I might have some respect for you.

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Its is my personal belief that infinities don't exist in nature. They are a mathamticial oddity that only arise in our current physical theories because of a lack of undertanding of what happens on the planck scale. If the universe was infinitely big it would contain an infinite amount of energy, which is rather difficult to contain in the supposedly finite spatial dimensions of the big bang. The only thing which may be infinite is time, but even then a cyclical(not nessecarily a simple loop) time line makes more sense than an infinite one.

 

That does not mean that the universe need be bounded in any sense. A being confined to the surface of a sphere can wonder around for eternity but will never find an edge. He is however confined within a finite area.

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if space has no curvature, then space must be infinite. if space looks the same in all directions (matterwise) then it must have infinite energy, why would it be difficult to keep infinite energy in 3 D. and the average energy density of the universe was not infinite (the big bang occurred over an infinite volume).

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I got must from assuming (quite reasonably) that you can never come to a point in the universe where the universe just ends, if this point can't exist and space has no curvature, then space must be infinite

 

The microwave background shows that space has no curvature

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If it's just an assumption, as you say it is, couldn't you just as easily assume that you can come to a point in the universe where the universe just ends?

 

:P

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so then you aren't confined to a limited volume, and space is infinite!!!!

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oc maybe what happens when you step over the line (it's pink you know) you shrivvel up and get thrown back into the center as a very small neutron star

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maybe, but I think occams razor would rule that space is infinite

;)

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go and read the posts

 

space universe are essentially the same terms in this debate.

 

space does not end, space does not have a shape. If you would like to disproove this you are welcome, but please post something more than just "space ends and it takes a shape, not the universe"

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As I read the different views on space topics, it seems to boil down the conception of each as to what the the properties of space are. mine being that it's only property is infinite boundless area in which existing energy and matter exist. I realize, of course that this is a minority viewpoint, and it has been pointed out to me before that mainline science has a more sophisticated concept of space than the layman. It seems to me that science's theories on space are skewed so as to accomodate the big bang and space expansion which must be so for the BB to have happened.

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but space expansion does occur. Originally GR had to be altered slightly so that it didn't happen. Then hubble observed the expansion, and the correction factor in GR became known as Einsteins greatest blunder.

 

The big bang originally came from the idea that if you reversed expansion eventually you'd get to a single point. This model failed, and alan guth created cosmic inflation which matches observations of the cosmos very closely

 

as for the universe I posted what it looks like already, it included all matter energy, and what the shape of space is.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WMAP.jpg

^there it is, now universe either attempt to disprove what I have said by analysing the evidence, or stop posting this nonsense

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but space expansion does occur.

 

How does space expand if it had no end/boundary, as you seem to be advocating? Even a balloon, which scientists often cite as an expansion model has an end/boundary. As the balloon is inflated it's edge/end/boundary expands, does it not? My question is that if you advocate that space does not end, infinite space seems to be implicated. How then can something infinite be increased/expanded? I'm not understanding how you can have it both ways.

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well, my view on this is, space is expanding, we know this to be proabably true, therefore it has to be expanding from some finite size to a new finite size, so must be finite, anything which is finite in size is finite in shape (although this might be moving)... This is only really a personal view though.

 

How could it expand if it goes on forever, and it does not have an ending? Everything that expands does so because it has room to fill a gap. There would be no gap to fill b/c space would already be ubiquitous and without end.

 

Awaiting your response.

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infinity +1 =infinity

 

space is not like a balloon (but if there was more matter in it it could be one), it goes on forever its just that each section of it is expanding so that everything is getting farther away from eachother. For instance a galaxy 1 billion light years is moving away from us at x velocity, a galaxy 8 billion light years away has velocity 8x (drastically oversimplified)

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infinity +1 =infinity

 

space is not like a balloon (but if there was more matter in it it could be one)' date=' it goes on forever its just that each section of it is expanding so that everything is getting farther away from eachother. For instance a galaxy 1 billion light years is moving away from us at x velocity, a galaxy 8 billion light years away has velocity 8x (drastically oversimplified)[/quote']

 

when the world was thought to be flat it was thought to be infinite

 

the same goes for space it is thought to be infinite, but it will be proven to be finite, space ends and it has a shape.

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sure, but they never bothered to actually measure to see if the earth was round. We have measured to see if the universe is flat or not.

 

but, you seem to be convinced your right. This is not any form of debate, its just you stating your oppinion without backing it up.

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