buzsaw Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Wow...People like this ruin this site. Thankfully' date=' they are avoidable.[/quote'] Please specify which people to whom you are referring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzsaw Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 buzsaw thats just it, they don't believe that that is the border, besides the fact that that border expands by about 1 ly every year, there is no evidence to show that the universe ends there. so it is logical to think that the universe goes on after 13.6 billion years But as I read your last post, it appeared by your wording that you believe that the border (boundary) to the universe's space is the edge of the hubble volumn. This is what you said: ....... the "border" to space that your seeking would be the edge of the hubble volume,......... So in your opinion, is it or isn't it the border/boundary? the idea that the universe is infinite is the mainstream viewpoint of the scientific community. Go over and tell it to Percy's EvC (evolution vs creation) board. My contention that the universe's space was infinitely volumnous got me into hot water over there. After all, if the universe is infinite, it's existing space must also be infinite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPL.Luke Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 But as I read your last post, it appeared by your wording that you believe that the border (boundary) to the universe's space is the edge of the hubble volumn. This is what you said: ....... the "border" to space that your seeking would be the edge of the hubble volume,......... So in your opinion, is it or isn't it the border/boundary? sorry I thought that you were trying to say that the universe really is finite, hence why I said the "border to space that your seeking would be the edge of the hubble volume. the idea that the universe is finite is something that has been propagated by laymen because of the whole "the universe is expanding" thing (which it is, its just that each section is expanding ie. 1 cubic lightyear over the course of a few million years will become 2 or 3 cubic lightyears (have no idea on the math of it)), the universe is infinite. if you need a reference there was a special issue of scientific american that came out just a few months ago with an article about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzsaw Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 sorry I thought that you were trying to say that the universe really is finite, hence why I said the "border to space that your[/u'] seeking would be the edge of the hubble volume. I don't know where you got it that I was arguing for a finite universe. How can a finite universe have boundless space, all existing space being inclusive in the term universe? the idea that the universe is finite is something that has been propagated by laymen because of the whole "the universe is expanding" thing (which it is, its just that each section is expanding ie. 1 cubic lightyear over the course of a few million years will become 2 or 3 cubic lightyears (have no idea on the math of it)), the universe is infinite. I can understand that sections of the universe can expand, but for the life of me I cannot understand how the whole thing/universe's existing infinite space can expand, or for that matter how anything infinite can have borders/boundarys that allegedly expand. Imaginary borders based on the hubble visible volumn doesn't cut that. That simply implies that when our telescopes become more powerful the imaginary border again expands to the new visible volumn from planet earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t777 Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 I don't know where you got it that I was arguing for a finite universe. How can a finite universe have boundless space' date=' all existing space being inclusive in the term universe? I can understand that [i']sections[/i] of the universe can expand, but for the life of me I cannot understand how the whole thing/universe's existing infinite space can expand, or for that matter how anything infinite can have borders/boundarys that allegedly expand. Imaginary borders based on the hubble visible volumn doesn't cut that. That simply implies that when our telescopes become more powerful the imaginary border again expands to the new visible volumn from planet earth. space ends or it doesn't when they try to take both sides they just look foolish space ends and it has a shape let's see all your great evidence that space is infinite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzsaw Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 let's see all your great evidence that space is infinite! First you need to state what the properties of the end of space, i.e. border/boundary, are so we know what we're talking about and so I'll know what evidence you are requesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjruu Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 "that is what everyone has always believed that space is infinite and that is a big reason to believe that is wrong" You know what, you've convinced me. You really have. Likewise, I now believe that I have two heads, 2+2=19.1032, and when you jump, you fall up. After all, everyone has always believed these things to be wrong, so they must be right. Cabiterol, mind giving evidence? Its interesting. Also, I was under the impression that the universe, due to its amount of mass, is curved into a saddle-shape, because a cosmological constant, can't remeber which one, was less than one. However, what DOES saddle-shaped mean under this context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasori Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Buzsaw, I apologize, I thought it was clear by the order of the posts. People like t777, saying "my concept is right because I said so, where's the evidence that your concept is right?" are the ones who ruin this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calbiterol Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Rasori, I absolutely and completely agree with you. Some people are so ignorantly pathetic that they should be banned from the earth. Forgive me if I put it too bluntly, but that's how it is. Anjruu, evidence for what, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AI_Interface Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 space ends or it doesn'twhen they try to take both sides they just look foolish space ends and it has a shape let's see all your great evidence that space is infinite! Space doesn't have any borders. If you were to fly in the same direction and keep flying you would eventually come back to were you began. Space does however have a finite volume, mass and energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 This is possibly the least most useful thread on the entire forum. If someone can come up with a good reason as to why I should re-open it, feel free, but for the time being it's closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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