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Hitman47

Alright stop yo' bitchin and give me some advice

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Ok, I'm going to visit this family who are like deeply religious (Christian). And since it's been two years since I last visited them, they still think I'm a 'good' Christian. But I'm an atheist now, and I'm very convinced that there isn't some 'floating' grandpa protecting us and shit.

 

Ok what I'm basically asking is some convincing arguments against Creationism, and give me some defending points on Evolution.

 

 

Please :D

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so i take it you arent interested in further relationships with these people?

 

and if you have to ask us for your convincing arguements why are you so sure there is no "floating grandpa"?

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evolution is easy though... simply ask the person the following questions:

 

1. do people resemble their parents, in size, shape, and color?

2. is a 6' 200 lb guy more or less likely to survive a cougar attack than a 5'2" 145 lb person such as myself?

3. will more children be born to a person who did die in a cougar attack or a person who didnt die in a cougar attack?

4. given the previous answers is it not likely that in the presence of cougars a society might gradually grow to consist of mostly large people instead of midgets such as myself? hence, evolving to be better suited to their environment?

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Ok' date=' I'm going to visit this family who are like deeply religious (Christian). And since it's been two years since I last visited them, they still think I'm a 'good' Christian. But I'm an atheist now, and I'm very convinced that there isn't some 'floating' grandpa protecting us and shit.

 

Ok what I'm basically asking is some convincing arguments against Creationism, and give me some defending points on Evolution.

 

 

Please :D[/quote']

 

Since you are to be a guest in their home, I would avoid the topic if possible. If you sit at their table and they say grace, I would bow my head and sit quietly while they pray. If they question you directly, I would try not to be too controversial. You can always say that "you are exploring your belief system and would prefer not to discuss it for the time being."

 

A good host tries to keep their guests at ease, and a good guest should do the same thing. Manners count, even if you have to bite your tongue once in a while.

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What convinced you that there is not a god? What reasons do you not believe in the supernatural?

 

I think you need to check your premises.

 

It would appear from your post that your decision has been made with little training as a scientist and little education on evolution.

 

If you are interested in the truth, if you want to be objective, then shouldn't you consider all options? I'm not suggesting that you have to grant plausibility to every idea, but consider that your current definition of god may not fit with reality. Thats one angle.

 

My training is in chemistry and I was surprised to find a number of biochemistry professors who believe in the intelligent design theory. Now I'm not suggesting that someone with a PhD is infallible, but someone with a PhD in biochemistry is at least informed and capable of making reasonable decisions.

 

Myself I am an atheist. I believe that evolution does explain the origin of species, but I'm not convinced that it explains the origins of life.

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Since you are to be a guest in their home' date=' I would avoid the topic if possible. If you sit at their table and they say grace, I would bow my head and sit quietly while they pray. If they question you directly, I would try not to be too controversial. You can always say that "you are exploring your belief system and would prefer not to discuss it for the time being."

 

A good host tries to keep their guests at ease, and a good guest should do the same thing. Manners count, even if you have to bite your tongue once in a while.[/quote']

 

Good post. My family is very religious. I have a lot to say on the issue. But I was once told that you can never miss a good opportunity to shut the hell up. So I keep quiet. It would kill my grandmother and some of my older relatives if they knew I didn't follow their faith.

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i absolutely agree about bowing your head during grace and all that. normally i would say if they ask, then tell them what you think. but given the apparent nature of your post, it seems like you are more interested in telling them they are wrong, in which case i would say do your best to keep it to yourself. the kinds of discussions you would probably want to have about it are not ones that would probably go over well.

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My training is in chemistry and I was surprised to find a number of biochemistry professors who believe in the intelligent design theory. Now I'm not suggesting that someone with a PhD is infallible, but someone with a PhD in biochemistry is at least informed and capable of making reasonable decisions.

 

intelligent design is not a theory.

 

Myself I am an atheist. I believe that evolution does explain the origin of species, but I'm not convinced that it explains the origins of life.

 

The theory of evolution does not address the origin of life. Never did, never will. Only what happens once you have it.

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My advice to you is to just smile if the topic comes up. You should be no more required to actively defend your beliefs than they are.

 

If they ask why you're an atheist, reply with "why should I not be?". Then keep asking "why?" after every single thing they say, until they give up.

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I myself do not practice any religion and have been in many situations where I have been 'different' because of that. It does feel a bit awkward going into a social situation where everyone is deeply religious but you are not. What I always do is state that I am not a follower of their religion, but I respect their following of that particular faith. I don't think less of you because you follow that religion, so please don't think less of me just because I do not. I have found that nearly all people I have said that to respect that and don't push anything on me or think any less of me. In the few cases where people have tried to then push their beliefs or have thought less of me, it just showed what type of people they really were and that my not associating with them was no big loss.

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i have been in that situation many times myself. while that may be a good way to handle it if they bring it up, if they dont i still think its better not to say anything.

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Well I'm oppostie of their belief system. I'm practically against everything of their political views. I'm a marxist, and I was pretty sure that they will question my faith because im like the 'center of attention' for them, and they like me very much.

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Well I'm oppostie of their belief system. I'm practically against everything of their political views. I'm a marxist, and I was pretty sure that they will question my faith because im like the 'center of attention' for them, and they like me very much.
I agree with Coquina on this one. You are a guest in their home. You are not there to stir up controversy. I think the answer, "I'm exploring my belief system" is perfect.

 

If they still question you further about your politics or your religion, tell them the truth about what led you to your current beliefs. If you didn't have anything to base those beliefs on before, asking us for "ammunition" to support your belief system is fairly hypocritical.

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intelligent design is not a theory.

 

Sorry, that was a mistake. I understand that intelligent design is not a theory in the scientific sense. Its not based on experimentation. I was just referring to it as a theory out of habit (popular use of the term).

 

The theory of evolution does not address the origin of life. Never did, never will. Only what happens once you have it.

 

I agree. When I first starting studying biology I was under the impression that evolution did explain the origin of life. Later I came to realize that it does not. Swansont what explanation for the origin of life do think is plausible?

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Hitman, try this site :http://www.creationtheory.org/Arguments/index.php?page=index

Or browse talkorigins.org. But if you can help it, try to stear clear of this topic. My mother, who is religious (somewhat, more like new agey theistic stuff) sometimes starts debates and arguemnts about evolution with me. Her arguements suck, and she seems to think that Lamarckism is still accepted. Don't expect these people to know much about it, or even accept evidence they makes them uncomfortable.

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everyone here has some very good advice. as for myself i believe in evolution and the possibility of god/gods as products of evolution. I believe in the possiblility of evolution of spiritual matter, however it works. The heart and foundation of all my faith is in common sense, aka evolution. Something survive, some die. There is a reason for this. That doesn't mean that spiritual factors absolutely dont fit into this equation. Also if you dont believe in god, what is the purpose of argueing against him? I think athiesim, in the form you currently possess, is a trait that will become extinct. One day beings will not care whether there is or isn't a God. They will simply live life for what it is.

 

as i doubt you will be swayed immediately by my words to reconsider your beliefs, i even moreso highly doubt a debate between you and this family will cause anything but conflict. What is the purpose of this conflict? If the issue comes up, talk your differences as respectfully, don't try to convince them, unless they invite you too, and then be respectful. Nothing but naked facts.

If you do still value these people as friends, make sure they know this in the end. Although my beliefs have become very different from everyone around me, i still immensely love them as people and value being able to interact with them.

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I hate to be the one to mention this but considering you are an atheist you always have the option of outright lying. I would only use this as a last option and keeping quiet as a first. Of course this may not work if youre not very good at bull-shitting your way out of problems.

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I hate to be the one to mention this but considering you are[/i'] an atheist you always have the option of outright lying. I would only use this as a last option and keeping quiet as a first. Of course this may not work if youre not very good at bull-shitting your way out of problems.

 

 

im confused about what being an atheist has to do with lying. Believing in god does not remove the option of lying, nor does being an athiest mean you dont have moral standards to uphold.

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if u want to remain in close contact with these people, simply patronize them. i recentely split from my fiance because her mother and i engaged in a heated argument about religion as she is a newly discovered catholic(oh there is nothing worse). to make matters worse i was unrelenting. so, yeah. here i am on saturday night 3 nights after the breakup with my fiance because i spoke my beliefs and explained to her mother the bible was a collection organized not by jesus christ but by a group of... yada yada.... and hus her ideas are yada. so, yeah. trust me

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now thats just plain fing stoopid.

 

there is no way that any heated discussion you got into with her MOTHER is enough to cause you to split with her. there is something else wrong dude... single arguments with the person dont ruin relationships, there is no way you managed to blow it all away with one discussion with the persons mother.

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now thats just plain fing stoopid.

 

there is no way that any heated discussion you got into with her MOTHER is enough to cause you to split with her. there is something else wrong dude... single arguments with the person dont ruin relationships' date=' there is no way you managed to blow it all away with one discussion with the persons mother.[/quote']

 

I agree... that is strange. Your fiance wasnt catholic was she?

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