Robittybob1 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 yes, the world at that time was not the seven continents!! It is all guessing isn't it? Any flood in the Mediterranean region would overflow the Suez region and out through Gibraltar and all drain away. That doesn't make sense either. But I do know there are valleys in North Africa where there are whale skeletons found in the middle of the sahara so I could imagine they tried to explain that by a big flood. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadi_Al-Hitan could be the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiolite Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 If Noah's flood was real, then it was most likely some local even in or prehistory. I assume this happened somewhere in the Mediterranean area. There is substantial evidence for the flooding of the Black Sea around 10,000 (?) years ago. Equally the Gulf would have seen substantial flooding in post-glacial times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 There is substantial evidence for the flooding of the Black Sea around 10,000 (?) years ago. Equally the Gulf would have seen substantial flooding in post-glacial times. Indeed, it is quite possible that the flood is a story about some event like these. It has become embellished and given religious meaning, but the event of a great flood may have been real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrick Laursen Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 The gulf certainly has flooded at least once in ~ 6,000 years ago. Studies in northern baghdad have resulted in finding some sedimentary layers of more than 7 metres in thickness. Several theories followed, one of the most reliable ones claim: "It's the Euphrates overflowing it's banks." In Sumerobabylonian mythology, a guy named "Shemesh- n' pishtim" was saved during a flood with his family. [sumerian Noah] [referred to in Gil go mesh epic.] Also, it's believe that Ark or Noah's Ship was settled on Ararat mountains [in Turkey] that Quran calls "Judii", and some ruins of it remain there with some hebrew names written on it. For any further studies refer to Cambridge Ancient History, Vol I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 yes, the world at that time was not the seven continents!! Is this is mistake with your English? I would imagine that people in the region of the Mediterranean and Black sea 5 000 to 10,000 years ago or so did not know the geography of the world. And for sure, a local event for a small tribe in that region could easily seem like a global one. If you are suggesting that the modern continents were not formed at the time of some great flood then you are very much mistaken. The earliest of the genus Homo (not Homo erectus ) emerged about 2.3 million years ago. These are our earliest direct ancestors. The continents are we know then formed something like 25 million years ago. (Others here may be able to give better estimates here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 The gulf certainly has flooded at least once in ~ 6,000 years ago. Studies in northern baghdad have resulted in finding some sedimentary layers of more than 7 metres in thickness. Several theories followed, one of the most reliable ones claim: "It's the Euphrates overflowing it's banks." In Sumerobabylonian mythology, a guy named "Shemesh- n' pishtim" was saved during a flood with his family. [sumerian Noah] [referred to in Gil go mesh epic.] Also, it's believe that Ark or Noah's Ship was settled on Ararat mountains [in Turkey] that Quran calls "Judii", and some ruins of it remain there with some hebrew names written on it. For any further studies refer to Cambridge Ancient History, Vol I. So it was a severe local flood, that had no effect on ocean levels. Well that could happen. Was that thick sedimentary layer carbon dated to the last 6,000 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahya515 Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 Is this is mistake with your English?I would imagine that people in the region of the Mediterranean and Black sea 5 000 to 10,000 years ago or so did not know the geography of the world. And for sure, a local event for a small tribe in that region could easily seem like a global one.If you are suggesting that the modern continents were not formed at the time of some great flood then you are very much mistaken. The earliest of the genus Homo (not Homo erectus ) emerged about 2.3 million years ago. These are our earliest direct ancestors. The continents are we know then formed something like 25 million years ago. (Others here may be able to give better estimates here) I meant there were not people living in all continents. I did not mean geography . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) We think people arrive in Australian around 50,000 years ago. People arrive the Americas between 13,000 and 15,000 years ago, though there is now evidence of much earlier; maybe 30,000 years ago. East Asia people arrived about 30,000 years ago. Spreading into Europe was some time after a little 75,000 years ago. So, it depends on when this flood occurred. If it was something like 10,000 to 5,000 years ago then people were across the globe. Edited November 22, 2014 by ajb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahya515 Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 We think people arrive in Australian around 50,000 years ago. People arrive the Americas between 13,000 and 15,000 years ago, though there is now evidence of much earlier; maybe 30,000 years ago. East Asia people arrived about 30,000 years ago. Spreading into Europe was some time after a little 75,000 years ago.So, it depends on when this flood occurred. If it was something like 10,000 to 5,000 years ago then people were across the globe. the Bible refers to Noah's flood as a global event "7 The Lord then said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.” the Quran does not Quran 71:1 "Indeed, We sent Noah to his people, [saying], "Warn your people before there comes to them a painful punishment." you may notice the word people in Quran and the word earth in the Bible, he collected pairs of each animal not because all of the animals of the earth will die but because the animals of that region will die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 why the existence of marine and freshwater animals makes Noah's flood imaginary ? Because most marine animals cannot survive in water that is anything but salt water of a certain salinity and freshwater fishes cannot live in water that is saline. Not to mention all the trees and and other plants that would have been killed by being under miles of water for nearly a year. A world wide flood is impossible for other reasons as well but those few are more than enough to negate a world wide flood... The story of the flood was plagiarized from the Story of Gilgamesh which predated all the Abrahamic religions. I meant there were not people living in all continents. I did not mean geography . There have been people living on all the continent except for Antarctica for as long as 50,000 years, maybe longer. I think he means that if the waters were so high to cover the mountains the oceans would have to mix with the flood water over the land so the whole becomes salty. So not fresh water fish could survive, or they had to re-evolve post flood. It's really quite a bit worse than that, echinoderms are but one type of animal that could not have survived a world wide flood due to the dilution of the sea, literally millions of species of animals could not have survived a world wide flood, insects one of the most important groups of animals could not have survived a world wide flood. But again I'll add that the story of the flood is nothing but a story plagiarized from earlier polytheistic religions as is most of the bible. There is no evidence any of this is true yahya515 no evidence for any of it whatsoever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Quran 71:1 "Indeed, We sent Noah to his people, [saying], "Warn your people before there comes to them a painful punishment." you may notice the word people in Quran and the word earth in the Bible, he collected pairs of each animal not because all of the animals of the earth will die but because the animals of that region will die. Not that he could have really done this, but okay. The Quran's twist on the story is that God warned the Jewish, but killed everyone else in the Near East? Any wickedness elsewhere was okay? Well my last statement maybe true, remember the Jewish are God's chosen people. The rest of us he is not so bothered about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Not that he could have really done this, but okay. The Quran's twist on the story is that God warned the Jewish, but killed everyone else in the Near East? Any wickedness elsewhere was okay? Well my last statement maybe true, remember the Jewish are God's chosen people. The rest of us he is not so bothered about! Noah wasn't Jewish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahya515 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 Not that he could have really done this, but okay. The Quran's twist on the story is that God warned the Jewish, but killed everyone else in the Near East? Any wickedness elsewhere was okay?Well my last statement maybe true, remember the Jewish are God's chosen people. The rest of us he is not so bothered about!Noah wasn't Jewish, the Jewish are the sons of Judah the son of Jacob the son of Isaac the son of Abraham and Abraham lived many years after Noah, Noah lived 950 years according to Quran he asked his people to believe in God during these years day and night Quran 71:6 " He said, "My Lord, indeed I invited my people [to truth] night and day" so he invited to truth many people the flood was the punishment for those people , yes the Jewish were God's chosen people according to Quran 5:20 " And [mention, O Muhammad], when Moses said to his people, "O my people, remember the favor of Allah upon you when He appointed among you prophets and made you possessors and gave you that which He had not given anyone among the worlds." but he broke his promise with them for their bad behavior . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Noah wasn't Jewish, the Jewish are the sons of Judah the son of Jacob the son of Isaac the son of Abraham and Abraham lived many years after Noah, Noah lived 950 years according to Quran he asked his people to believe in God during these years day and night Quran 71:6 " He said, "My Lord, indeed I invited my people [to truth] night and day" so he invited to truth many people the flood was the punishment for those people , yes the Jewish were God's chosen people according to Quran 5:20 " And [mention, O Muhammad], when Moses said to his people, "O my people, remember the favor of Allah upon you when He appointed among you prophets and made you possessors and gave you that which He had not given anyone among the worlds." but he broke his promise with them for their bad behavior . Do you ever wonder how they lived so long? Doesn't that strike you as a bit odd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Noah wasn't Jewish. Okay. However, ethnically I imagine he was Jewish (mod the fact that he probabily did not exist). His direct descendent are the "Semitic" peoples. Indeed "Semitic" comes from the name of one of his sons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Okay. However, ethnically I imagine he was Jewish (mod the fact that he probabily did not exist). His direct descendent are the "Semitic" peoples. Indeed "Semitic" comes from the name of one of his sons. As I said to my pastor "if the Christians believe that all peoples were descended from Noah and his sons, you guys are the biggest believers in evolution there is, for even the scientists don't advocate such a high mutation rate!" Edited November 24, 2014 by Robittybob1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 As I said to my pastor "if the Christians believe that all peoples were descended from Noah and his sons, you guys are the biggest believers in evolution there is, for even the scientists don't advocate such a high mutation rate!" And I bet the reply was not very polite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 And I bet the reply was not very polite? That was such a long time ago I can't actually remember his answer but he did have a perplexed expression but my excommunication letter was in the mail. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 unfortunately, for a person who does not believe in the Bible and would like to investigate it to know whether it is true or false, he should take it literally. Because it is the original text of what prophets said(if it is true) including Jesus, if it is taken figuaratively, this means we change the speech of these prophets.and we do that only if it is wrong, and we hide it from being understood as it is. so only people who believe in it should take it figuaratively. metaphors should be understood according to language rules and its environment, these metaphors are phrases that should be understood figuaratively , but for the general meaning it should be understood literally. According to Old Bible, prophet Moses, allowed Jude's to escapes Egypt through Red Sea. Mose is also Islamic prophet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_in_Islam Are you taking it literally also.. ? I mean Red sea disappearing, allowing travel, then flooding Egyptian army.. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 According to Old Bible, prophet Moses, allowed Jude's to escapes Egypt through Red Sea. Mose is also Islamic prophet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_in_Islam Are you taking it literally also.. ? I mean Red sea disappearing, allowing travel, then flooding Egyptian army.. ? No one said it was easy! -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahya515 Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 According to Old Bible, prophet Moses, allowed Jude's to escapes Egypt through Red Sea. Mose is also Islamic prophet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_in_Islam Are you taking it literally also.. ? I mean Red sea disappearing, allowing travel, then flooding Egyptian army.. ? it is a miracle , there is no need for surprise ! God repeated over and over for the Jewish how he saved them from the Egyptian with strength. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypervalent_iodine Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 ! Moderator Note Can we please drop the, 'it was a miracle,' rhetoric? You've asked for mistakes in the bible, you can't then counter the ones brought up by claiming magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Okay. However, ethnically I imagine he was Jewish (mod the fact that he probabily did not exist). His direct descendent are the "Semitic" peoples. Indeed "Semitic" comes from the name of one of his sons. By that argument he was ethnically African because the "Hamitic" people are descended from his son Ham. He was also ethnically European because they were descended from his son Japheth. (Presumably the peoples of Asia, Polynesia, Australasia, etc. don't exist.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) it is a miracle , there is no need for surprise ! God repeated over and over for the Jewish how he saved them from the Egyptian with strength. But why God would be "good God" for Jews and "evil God" for Egyptians.. ? Jews would say: "because we're chosen nation". But that's what for people hates them... When Arab/Muslim would answer that this question, it would be miracle on itself, remembering that for typical Muslim from Arabian Gulf area Jews are enemy no.1.. Even president of Iran was talking about annihilation of Israel country in his speeches.. ps. I didn't neg you.. Edited December 2, 2014 by Sensei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahya515 Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 ! Moderator Note Can we please drop the, 'it was a miracle,' rhetoric? You've asked for mistakes in the bible, you can't then counter the ones brought up by claiming magic. sorry, but you should take in consideration some emotional statements about one's belief, it is a religious discussion! But why God would be "good God" for Jews and "evil God" for Egyptians.. ? Jews would say: "because we're chosen nation". But that's what for people hates them... When Arab/Muslim would answer that this question, it would be miracle on itself, remembering that for typical Muslim from Arabian Gulf area Jews are enemy no.1.. Even president of Iran was talking about annihilation of Israel country in his speeches.. ps. I didn't neg you.. This equation applies in every religion , God likes believers and hates unbelievers, the egyptians were unbelievers. the choosing process is not because God likes them more than others, but because they Just was chosen. as Abraham was chosen as a prophet his sons were chosen as his people , not because they were good but because God should choose people whether they are the Africans ,Arabs, and because prophets were from them God chose them. they were chosen but God broke his promise with them. the idea about hating the Jewish in my opinion is because they hate Muslims and is according to Qur'an, I do not care about other Muslims, If a Jew does not hate me I will not hate, finally why Jewish hate Muslims because they think prophets should only be among them . that what I slam teaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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