# A few exciting alternative energy prospects.

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First: Moderators... Move this to any appropriate section. I was thinking of even starting this in speculations/Trash can because this forum has no specific area for fringe science that I can see. For instance if the wright brothers were inventing the airplane today what area would we discuss it if no papers had been released. I use flight as an example because some mainstream science was denying flight was possible years after flight had occurred.

While I do not think it deserves a place in physics. I also think trashing all fringe science is not something wise people would do.

So I'm putting it in science news?

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Okay.

This story is (possibly fiction) about a Harvard Educated Medical Doctor who also has Chemistry degrees and training in Electromechanical Engineering from MIT. He is also Phi Beta Kappa, which is an intellectual distinction.

So this Harvard Educated Doctor was seeing patients, prescribing medicines and such and invented several things.

He invented Magnetic Susceptibility Imaging (MSI)

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5073858.html

This device is mainly used for detailed Brain Scans and has proven helpful in the study of epilepsy.

He also invented MIRAGE (Mossbauer Isotopic Resonant Absorption of Gamma Emission).

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4815447.html

"a cancer therapy comprising a Mossbauer isotope derivatized DNA binding pharmaceutical and radiation which activates the isotope in situ to cause eradication of cancer with radiation doses of one millionth that conventionally used during radiation therapy."

THE FACT THAT HE IS A REAL MEDICAL DOCTOR (Not just PhD) and can easily earn $100-$400k per year just being a Doctor and is Phi Beta Kappa does not make what he is claiming true.

This guy "Dr. Randell Mils" then wrote a Theory of Everything book that disagrees with Mainstream Physics.

He then stopped being a Medical Doctor and has spent the past 25 years trying to make his Theory into a working energy source.

His main disagreement with current physics is his claim Hydrogen can exist having a lower energy than the normal ground state. He calls it a Hydrino, and there is plenty of information about it online, but most all of it says it is wrong and that Dr. Mills is a fraud.

(NOTE: Dr. Mills also claims the Hydrino is Dark matter)

The Theory predicts Hydrogen collapsing to the Hydrino state can release 200 times more energy than burning Hydrogen.

Wikipedia says this man is a fraud. He has raised and spent 60-80 million USD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklight_Power

Fringe Science is not always supported by facts. Cutting edge research is not always placed on a full page spread in the New York Times. Sometimes the companies like to keep their breakthroughs to themselves.

So an investigator must ask? What's his motivation for Fraud? Money? This Guys education is worth more than many people make in a lifetime, and a Phi Beta Kappa Harvard Educated Medical Doctor could likely make enough money to retire earlier than now on any beach he desired.

The investigators of fringe science should look at logical progressions in the technology over the years.

Okay.... So here it is. The "POSSIBLE" energy source he now claims to have invented.

His company BLACKLIGHT POWER has created a device they claim can run on the moisture in the air and a one(1) foot square box device can power 10 000 homes.

Let me repeat. A 1' Square Box that runs on moisture that can power 10 000 homes.

Blacklight Power filed for global Patent on this device earlier in the year and they have shown 3 progressing demonstrations the latest being the past monday.

The idea is to create thousands of Plasma Bursts per second using the moisture as fuel. Then the Photovoltaic Cells can harness the Energy. The Plasma Bursts are much brighter than the sun so use the PV cells more effectively than straight sunlight would.

Anyways.. This is Fringe Science so decide for yourself

Listen to Dr. Mills explain it here.

Specific events included: ignition of H2O-based solid fuel in air and argon atmospheres, calorimetric energy balance determination under argon, EUV spectroscopy of the hydrogen transitions to hydrinos, theory, technical, engineering, and commercialization presentations, and live demonstrations of BlackLight’s Third Generation SunCell with Photovoltaic Conversion of Light to Electricity. The main engineering aspects of the presentation were the complete system design and a unit that demonstrated those elements of the fast ignition and regeneration as well as optical distribution and photovoltaic conversion systems. A question and answer session was held with participation by three validators: a materials expert, an energetic materials and spectroscopy expert, and a defense company licensee.

(3 other videos after this for DEMO)

(WATCH DEMO ABOVE TO HEAR DR. RANDELL MILLS DISCUSS IT FOR OVER AN HOUR AT RECENT DEMONSTRATION.) Most of your questions will be answered there

So maybe its a Fraud, but if not it could be the best scientific discoveries of the century. Either way I expect this topic will be moved to trash by days end.

The speaker in above video is Doctor Randell Mills. What his motivation is for fraud I cannot imagine.

If this device is real you might see ion wind flying cars.

NOTE: If we believe them and demos THEY HAVE THIS DEVICE WORKING NOW. IT MAKES ELECTRICITY NOW. THEY ARE STILL IN PROCESS OF SPEEDING UP PLASMA BURSTS BUT THEY ARE EXPECTING QUICK PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT.

Many people claim he's fraudulent because it has taken 25 years. People supporting him 15 years ago are growing weary. Here it was in news 5 years ago as example.

(NOTE: 5 years ago they were attacking it from another angle. More like LENR. The Plasma into Solar Cells is new within this timeframe)

If this has peaked anybodies interest there is much information and discussion groups online.

(Note: I am not saying this is real. I am showing current news (This was last Monday July 21) on a topic that MAY affect us all. The concept is interesting if nothing else.)

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Also... If that is of interest. LENR is also a fringe science and despite thousands of papers and many books on the subject it is not yet endorsed by Mainstream science. I have already started a discussion on that. Just look in the trash Can.

Edited by barfbag

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#### Popular Days

THE FACT THAT HE IS A REAL MEDICAL DOCTOR (Not just PhD) and can easily earn $100-$400k per year just being a Doctor and is Phi Beta Kappa does not make what he is claiming true.

Then why mention it?

Fringe Science is not always supported by facts.

The it isn't science.

What's his motivation for Fraud?

Maybe he is just deluded. Who cares.

This is Fringe Science so decide for yourself

Nope. Just bollocks.

His company BLACKLIGHT POWER has created a device they claim can run on the moisture in the air and a one(1) foot square box device can power 10 000 homes.

Why don't you buy one and set yourself up as a power company and make a fortune.

Hang on, why don't they do that? Why doesn't anyone? Why isn't there one of these boxes in every town across the world?

Edited by Strange
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Hang on, why don't they do that? Why doesn't anyone? Why isn't there one of these boxes in every town across the world?

I did not say they invented it 25 years ago. I am saying this is patent pending globally atm. Are you suggesting we should not discuss fringe science. Could you have bought a toaster while it was being invented? That comment does seem a little silly since it does not follow logic. How can you buy something that is in development?

THE FACT THAT HE IS A REAL MEDICAL DOCTOR (Not just PhD) and can easily earn $100-$400k per year just being a Doctor and is Phi Beta Kappa does not make what he is claiming true.

Then why mention it?

Often People think fraudulent activities are for financial rewards. By demonstrating that he was well trained in one of the Highest paying Professions (Medical Doctor) might ease that conclusion.

Maybe he is just deluded. Who cares.

I think I also said that. I am not claiming that was real. I was showing an alternative energy demonstration that has raised some interest of late. Your response was too quick to have watched the Demonstration video (It's 1-4 hours long) so you obviously are commenting based on your own idea that alternative energy is not possible? Where does such logic come from?

If however he is deluded then explain how the device is working. There are validators present in the videos. Blacklight has always followed a stringent validation process along all of its paths.

Here is some former validations in their favour.

http://www.blacklightpower.com/technology/validation-reports/

So your input is that this PHI BETA KAPPA Harvard Educated Medical Doctor is deluded despite having results to show for his work all along the way. That certainly is likely a common view here I bet.

If it is delusion then why is there working prototypes. Working prototypes like in demonstration

above (last video) would mean he has to be a fraud and then again, what would be the motivation?

I mean you cannot delude successful demonstrations or validations.

Why not watch at least the first 3 minutes of that link above before commenting?

He explains where they are and what they are doing well.

What logic is there in discounting something you won't even look at?

Edited by barfbag
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Are you suggesting we should not discuss fringe science.

I didn't say that.

How can you buy something that is in development?

He has been spouting this crap for years. All these "free energy" nuts do the same. None of them quietly go into business selling energy and become billionaires. It is some sort of ego trip, I guess ("look at how clever I am").

Your response was too quick to have watched the Demonstration video

1. I have read about this crap before. I don't particularly want to submit myself to it again, it is too brain-numbingly stupid.

2. Video? I wouldn't watch it anyway. Because its a video. Show me a peer-reviewed paper on the science involved.

If however he is deluded then explain how the device is working.

It doesn't.

As for the "validators" ... I guess some people are easily fooled.

I am saying this is patent pending globally atm.

He has been filing patents on this for years. Some of the oldest ones have already expired. They should provide enough information for anyone to reproduce the technology (that is the purpose of patents) so knock yourself out.

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Hydrinos are crap.

If there was an energy level below the ground state, that would be the ground state. Plus, it would really help to have an actual validly-derived model that showed this.

In general, there's a simple test for energy generation devices: unplug it from the wall, and have it run a load in addition to itself. Leave it running. Nobody ever seems to choose this test.

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@ Strange,

He has been spouting this crap for years. All these "free energy" nuts do the same. None of them quietly go into business selling energy and become billionaires. It is some sort of ego trip, I guess ("look at how clever I am").

How clever you are? Clever enough to exactly repeat a concept I said in the OP which was,

Many people claim he's fraudulent because it has taken 25 years. People supporting him 15 years ago are growing weary.

All these "free energy" nuts do the same. None of them quietly go into business selling energy

All of them implies it can never happen. I mean if they are all nuts.

He has been filing patents on this for years. Some of the oldest ones have already expired. They should provide enough information for anyone to reproduce the technology (that is the purpose of patents) so knock yourself out.

You obviously do not read posts before you respond to them. This was also covered.

Also from OP,

investigators of fringe science should look at logical progressions in the technology over the years.

The CIHT CELL he was developing based on his theory is not even close to what he is proposing now, His earlier versions (see confirmations) were more like modern LENR with Nickel Hydrogen Lithium Catalyst much like where LENR is today. SEE VALIDATION REPORTS IN LINK I PREVIOUSLY GAVE. (here it is again.)

http://www.blacklightpower.com/technology/validation-reports/

He is now making Plasma Bursts that then use Solar Cells to convert to power.

I also had said in OP,

(NOTE: 5 years ago they were attacking it from another angle. More like LENR. The Plasma into Solar Cells is new within this timeframe)

This is something the seemed to have learned only within the past year and they seem very excited with 3 demos so far this year.

@ Swansont,

If there was an energy level below the ground state, that would be the ground state.

Is it fun to confuse the issue? Obviously it was meant as below the "accepted" ground state.

it would really help to have an actual validly-derived model that showed this.

This is recent news about a company claiming a recent breakthrough that has been causing a lot of internet discussion. It is not 50 year old science found in text books.

I was thinking of starting the OP in Speculations, and even suggested it be moved in the OP, although I think a topic should exist for discussing fringe science. I mean areas that are under known financial study but are not mainstream science with results pending.

I HAVE NOT CLAIMED THIS IS REAL. I PRESENTED FACTS FOR AND AGAINST.

Edited by barfbag
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Firstly, nobody is censoring your posts . I suspect that what happened was that it got moved to the right part of the site.

Secondly, Let me sumarise what you have said.

"HE IS A REAL MEDICAL DOCTOR (Not just PhD) and can easily earn $100-$400k per year just being a Doctor"

"He then stopped being a Medical Doctor and has spent the past 25 years trying to make his Theory into a working energy source."

OK, so, if he had carried on at 400K per year for 25 years he would have raised ten million.

By changing his career "He has raised and spent 60-80 million USD".

Sounds like a very sensible career decision- even if he knows the product is bogus.

But the real problem is that there's no evidence for this working.

There never was.

There never will be.

Edited by John Cuthber
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@ Barfbag, I enjoy your perspective. You see things from a different point of view. Your post can be useful to certian discussions and are normally entertaining to read. However you tend to be hyper defensive and a bit combative at times. Needlessly at times. Over half of the OP was a defensive justification for who and what this thread is about. It makes it hard to follow and harder feel objective about. Rather than open the thread writing to the site moderators why not just say, " This guy Randell Mils has this theory about energy. What do you all think"? For me that would've made this conversation much easier.

As for the energy, I am with Swansont. Easiest way to test that a power source works is to run it under load.

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You obviously do not read posts before you respond to them. This was also covered.

You said it was "patent pending" technology (and that was why you could not test it).

If his originally patented ideas were valid, then you (anyone) could implement those ideas. Oddly, no one is.

I HAVE NOT CLAIMED THIS IS REAL.

You are getting pretty heated about defending it though. Even though the "science" is not "fringe" it is completely and utterly bogus. Stop wasting your time on it.

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@ Ten oz,

Thanks

@ Strange,

You are getting pretty heated about defending it though. Even though the "science" is not "fringe" it is completely and utterly bogus. Stop wasting your time on it.

I defend the idea of thoroughly examining an idea before dismissing it. Your post #2 was less than ten minutes after I had posted, and your arguments in that post had been addressed before. So I was not so much defending as reiterating.

I could claim any current research is bogus, or why bother with research at all if they can simply look things up in textbooks.

So I guess it DOES make sense there is no place to discuss it.

You said it was "patent pending" technology (and that was why you could not test it).

No. I don't think I came close to saying anything resembling that remark. I said it was patent pending before, but who said anything about testing it?

You mention old patents of the CIHT Cells, but they had problems getting them to work.

Even the current Plasma Bursts were initially so destructive they burned the electrodes. This was overcome and now there is a gap between the electrodes and plasma burst. The difference in our views is that I have at least looked at it and read about it before commenting.

@ JohnC,

"HE IS A REAL MEDICAL DOCTOR (Not just PhD) and can easily earn $100-$400k per year just being a Doctor"

"He then stopped being a Medical Doctor and has spent the past 25 years trying to make his Theory into a working energy source."

OK, so, if he had carried on at 400K per year for 25 years he would have raised ten million.

By changing his career "He has raised and spent 60-80 million USD".

Yes. I suppose if he were allowed by law to pocket all that money he could have 10 bathrooms in his house instead of 6. (Example: I don't know if his house has any bathrooms).

Investors usually have access to the books of any company. I'm sure if he was paying himself more than something reasonable someone might complain. I would think companies and individuals contributing $60+ million might use some common sense. So your point in the last post seems to be that he is engaging in fraud because$10 million in earnings is not enough to satisfy him, and he is willing to risk jail for an extra few bathrooms in his house.

I mean I cannot imagine too much of a different lifestyle if you had another $50 million. S Series Mercedes or Cadillacs are still the car you'd be driving either way, although I think he has a BMW. Your restaurants will be the same. Your choice of fine women would likely be better if you were a Doctor than an alternative theorist. @ Swansont and Ten oz, I am with Swansont. Easiest way to test that a power source works is to run it under load. I agree. If anyone had watched the demonstration video (would need an interest in the topic), then they would know they are moving this along at a rapid speed. They are also producing the power to light the lights. I think measuring power in and power out is enough for them and many. Had he run it under its own power it would not convince anybody here, but measurements and data are available. Their first demo of the year basically was just showing they could get a plasma burst from moisture. It was only a one shot deal. In their second demo they had multiple bangs in a machine gun fire succession. In this demonstration the burst occur much more rapidly. Anyways. I am describing what I have seen and read when there is plenty out there for anyone with interest to explore. I am not arguing for it, but honestly every point you guys are making has been addressed in the video's and slides, and previous demos. Here is older Demo from just a month ago (device only). It shows the electrodes are not destroyed anymore by a single burst, and has LED lights demonstrating they are getting some power from this. The Bursts are brighter than your monitors will allow so imagine them bright enough to blind someone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxmjJ3ecn48 Published on Jun 6, 2014 BLP's Electricity-Generation Test of Automated Ignition System of Auger-Fed H2O-Based Solid Fuel Powder: A very small quantity of highly conductive H2O-based solid fuel powder was loaded in to a hopper and gravity fed into an auger overhead of rollers electrodes that were electrified with about 5V, 20,000A. The high current flow ignited the gravity fed fuel to produce 0.5 ms pulses of brilliant light-emitting plasma having power and power densities of one million watts and 100 billion watts per liter, respectively. The optical power of the white light having the same temperature as the Sun was converted to electricity using commercial solar cells surrounding the plasma. Note: There is no commentary/notes or statistics with this basic video. They are available on their website. THIS VIDEO IS FROM THEIR LAST DEMO. THE DEMO LINKED IN OP IS WHERE THEY ARE NOW. Edited by barfbag ##### Link to comment ##### Share on other sites I defend the idea of thoroughly examining an idea before dismissing it. Your post #2 was less than ten minutes after I had posted As I said before, I have read his "scientific" ideas before. They were trash then and they are trash now. It doesn't even require a huge level of physics education to work that out. Apart from that, his reasons for doing it are irrelevant (whether it works or not). Here is an article by someone who is wlling to spend more time on this than I am: http://scientopia.org/blogs/goodmath/2014/01/14/the-latest-update-in-the-hydrino-saga/ ##### Link to comment ##### Share on other sites @ Ten oz, Thanks @ Strange, I defend the idea of thoroughly examining an idea before dismissing it. Your post #2 was less than ten minutes after I had posted, and your arguments in that post had been addressed before. So I was not so much defending as reiterating. I could claim any current research is bogus, or why bother with research at all if they can simply look things up in textbooks. So I guess it DOES make sense there is no place to discuss it. No. I don't think I came close to saying anything resembling that remark. I said it was patent pending before, but who said anything about testing it? You mention old patents of the CIHT Cells, but they had problems getting them to work. Even the current Plasma Bursts were initially so destructive they burned the electrodes. This was overcome and now there is a gap between the electrodes and plasma burst. The difference in our views is that I have at least looked at it and read about it before commenting. @ JohnC, Yes. I suppose if he were allowed by law to pocket all that money he could have 10 bathrooms in his house instead of 6. (Example: I don't know if his house has any bathrooms). Investors usually have access to the books of any company. I'm sure if he was paying himself more than something reasonable someone might complain. I would think companies and individuals contributing$60+ million might use some common sense.

So your point in the last post seems to be that he is engaging in fraud because $10 million in earnings is not enough to satisfy him, and he is willing to risk jail for an extra few bathrooms in his house. I mean I cannot imagine too much of a different lifestyle if you had another$50 million. S Series Mercedes or Cadillacs are still the car you'd be driving either way, although I think he has a BMW. Your restaurants will be the same. Your choice of fine women would likely be better if you were a Doctor than an alternative theorist.

Logically, you have a point. Once you can buy pretty much anything, there's no genuine point to wishing to earn more.

Yet people do.

People who have a lot more than 10 million still strive to make more money. Anyone with 11 million or more could have stopped at 10- they didn't.

The point I was making was that he certainly didn't make any sacrifice to pursue this line and he has a very big incentive to cheat.

The point that the investors can check the books is beside the point for two reasons.

Firstly, his results are fraudulent so how good do you think his books are?

Secondly, anyone with an ounce of sense would check the physics before they invested and realise this is all woo woo.

(Those who don't have the background to check it themselves could get a physics student from the local university to check it over on their behalf. Any competent student would realise it's bollocks.)

And you seem to have rather missed the point about research. The idea is that you do it to gather data so, when you say "I could claim any current research is bogus, or why bother with research at all if they can simply look things up in textbooks." you fail to spot the difference.

One side has repeatable results and the other side has smoke and mirrors.

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@ Strange,

As I said before, I have read his "scientific" ideas before.

Not in this thread. Nothing you have said so far indicates that you had heard of it before today. Discussing past patents is information someone could obtain with 5 minutes and a search Engine.

However.

I had not considered you were acquainted with the material so I apologize for assuming you were not informed.

The company is acting a lot differently as of late. They seem very celebratory compared to earlier times. In 2009 when they were saying 5 years (it is 5 years by the way), they were still working with the CIHT cells.

Now they seem excited.. Global Patents, constant demonstrations. Engineering details. If anyone asks him a direct question in a polite manner (cough) he usually responds. I had questioned how he keeps his optics clean.

The CIHT cell has many validations (linked earlier or on their website) , and each validation has the CV of the validator attached.. The reason it was abandoned appears to be this avenue presented itself and seemed more viable with a lot more potential energy.

Three validators begin talking at 42 minutes in.

@ JohnC,

The reason many people continue to work after they have more money than they could ever spend is likely that they are doing something they enjoy. My contention is he is enjoying the pursuit of cheap green energy. Your contention must be that he enjoys being a fraud. Sometimes the people who make $11 000 000 though are still on the same train that earned them$10 000 000. Whenever I go on vacation half the couples we meet own a company that someone else is running with not much work needed on their part.

Edited by barfbag
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My contention is that he likes making money. It's also entirely possible that he is deluded rather than dishonest, but that doesn't detract from the fact that he has been rubbished on the web consistently for years.

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that doesn't detract from the fact that he has been rubbished on the web consistently for years.

And just to be clear: he is not wrong because he is being rubbished on the web; he is being rubbished on the web because he is wrong.

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Below are quotes from what I think is a decent article regarding Blacklight Power:

"One ten-thousandth of a liter of water produces millions of watts of power.

Sounds impressive, doesn't it? Oh, but wait... how do we measure energy density of a substance? Joules per liter, or something equivalent - that is, energy per volume. But Blacklight is quoting energy density as watts per liter.

The joule is a unit of energy. Watts are a different unit, a measure of power, A watt is one joule/second."

"Gasoline contains, on average, about 11.8 kWh/kg. A milliliter of gasoline weighs about 7/10ths of a gram, compared to the 1 gram weight of a milliter of water; therefore, a kilogram of gasoline should contain around 1400 milliliters. So, let's take 11.8kWh/kg, and convert that to an equivalent measure of energy per milliter: about 8 1/2 kWh/milliliter. How does that compare to hydrinos? Oh, wait... we can't convert those, now can we? Because they're using power density. And the power density of a substance depends not just on how much power you can extract, but how long it takes to extract it."

"Here's my guess. Mills has some process where he spikes his generator with 12000 amps, and gets a microsecond burst of energy out. If you can produce 100 joules from one milliliter in 1/1000th of a second, that's a power density of 100,000 joules per milliliter.

Suddenly, the amount of power that's being generated isn't so huge - and there, I would guess, is the key to Mills latest scam. If you're hitting your generating apparatus with 12,000 amperes of electric current, and you're producing microsecond burst of energy, it's going to be very easy to produce that energy by consuming something in the apparatus, without that consumption being obvious to an observer who isn't allowed to independently examine the apparatus in detail."

http://scientopia.org/blogs/goodmath/2014/01/14/the-latest-update-in-the-hydrino-saga/

Edited by Ten oz
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@ Ten oz,

Now you are looking into it. I should link some data you might like, but I think if anyone has interest enough they can just keep an eye on them or find the data themselves.

@ Strange,

he is being rubbished on the web because he is wrong.

No. I think being deluded can be ruled out.

If it does not work then he has paid off a dozen plus PhD's to put their reputations on the line saying this works and also someone deluded would not have positive findings if they were "wrong"

It would need to be out and out fraud. Not only by him, but by Doctorates such as the ones in Mondays Demonstration video (linked earlier).

I think you'll be fine with that assumption also.

Rowan University did a replication... (below) (starts at 30 seconds in)

So this is just one of the Doctorates that would need to be in on the scam (if it is a scam).

Or let's not forget

A materials scientist from the University of Illinois spoke via Skype and said,

he has independently replicated most of what BLP has done with similar results and he has a unit currently running at U of Illinois. He is doing additional data analysis. He also said that he measured the UV spectra from the SunCell and it couples really well with PV cells. So he thinks the light it is producing is as beneficial as sunlight.

I could go on with many University Professors and Doctorates all either confirming replication or whom must be lying according to the consensus here so far.

Edited by barfbag
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No. I think being deluded can be ruled out.

If it does not work then he has paid off a dozen plus PhD's to put their reputations on the line saying this works and also someone deluded would not have positive findings if they were "wrong"

It would need to be out and out fraud. Not only by him, but by Doctorates such as the ones in Mondays Demonstration video (linked earlier).

That is all irrelevant. His basic "science" is gibberish.

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FFS! the "independent" replication video starts with a plug from the guy who is accused of fraud.

They then have a bloke who says "I know about photovoltaics etc" (i.e. he's a physicist) and then says "based on the chemistry involved..."

So, he may have a PhD, but it's not in the subject he is talking about.

That's not a good sign

They say they regularly produce over a megajoule of energy. Woot! Sounds impressive.

Except that it's roughly the energy content of a mars bar.

Now, they are getting that energy from some "magic" stuff supplied to them by BL.

But they are using about a kilogram of the stuff at a time. (It says so at 01:55 in the video)

So, what they can do with a kilo of "magic stuff" is store the same energy as a candy bar that weighs 17 times less.

All that demonstration shows is that a chemical reaction can generate heat.

Well, that has been known since man discovered fire.

So what?

at about 5 mins they say they can't work out what the chemistry is.

Well, that may be because they are not chemists.

Also, they show that they don';t know what they are talking about because they claim the heat production if "of a very large magnitude".

Well, clearly, it isn't.

You are not going to run a power station on something with an energy density that's roughly 20 times less than that of coal.

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Is it fun to confuse the issue? Obviously it was meant as below the "accepted" ground state.

No, that was just some physics shorthand. Atoms tend to be in their ground state. Which means that what we call the ground state is somehow — previously unexplained and unnoticed — a metastable state, that only Randal Mills can cause to decay to the ground state.

This is recent news about a company claiming a recent breakthrough that has been causing a lot of internet discussion. It is not 50 year old science found in text books.

Oooh, internet discussion. Stop the presses. Nothing wacky ever gets discussed on the internet.

Actual science gets discussed in peer-reviewed journals and at conferences and have repeatable tests done under rigorous conditions.

I agree. If anyone had watched the demonstration video (would need an interest in the topic), then they would know they are moving this along at a rapid speed. They are also producing the power to light the lights. I think measuring power in and power out is enough for them and many.

Lots of devices appear to generate more power than is put in, but it's a farce because the measurement is wrong — AC power is a tad tricky because of the phase angle between the current and the voltage. It's easy to get the wrong answer.

They don't do it because it won't run that way. Can't get investors if the thing doesn't run.

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@ JohnC,

they show that they don';t know what they are talking about because they claim the heat production if "of a very large magnitude".

Well, clearly, it isn't.

You are not going to run a power station on something with an energy density that's roughly 20 times less than that of coal.

There is a difference between heat and temperature. They make no claims to capture heat energy or kinetic energy. They are ONLY channeling the produced light into solar cells.

@ Swansont,

a metastable state, that only Randal Mills can cause to decay to the ground state.

No. I linked validation reports with replications. The video had a Professor from the University of Illinois saying he was running replications there, etc., etc.

barfbag, on 26 Jul 2014 - 1:31 PM, said:

This is recent news about a company claiming a recent breakthrough that has been causing a lot of internet discussion. It is not 50 year old science found in text books.

Oooh, internet discussion. Stop the presses. Nothing wacky ever gets discussed on the internet.

Okay this is straw man because you are changing the argument.

My comment above in quotes was in response to this

it would really help to have an actual validly-derived model that showed this.

So I answered that this is a new area of science in response to your request for a model. I was not using the internet as a source. I have linked validation reports and papers.

My phrase was never meant to suggest internet discussions were the validations as many validations have been cited whether faulty or not.

I am not supporting this idea, but I am answering your questions.

Edited by barfbag
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@ JohnC,

There is a difference between heat and temperature. They make no claims to capture heat energy or kinetic energy. They are ONLY channeling the produced light into solar cells.

Utter bollocks; they clearly say in the video that they are measuring heat output. nothing about light.

Edited by John Cuthber
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@ JohnC,

Utter bollocks

No its true.

http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/cosmic_classroom/light_lessons/thermal/differ.html

I appreciate that you actually took some time and watched a bit of the demo, but I do not see how you think temperature or heat have anything to do with the power they are generating. The energy release is primarily light that is much brighter than the sun and can more effectively use PV cells that only run at about 17% efficiency when using sunlight.

Also, they show that they don';t know what they are talking about because they claim the heat production if "of a very large magnitude".

Well, clearly, it isn't.

You are not going to run a power station on something with an energy density that's roughly 20 times less than that of coal.

So why are you suggesting this device requires the boiling capacity of coal? What power station? Are you referring to a solar panel as a power station?

Coal cannot run a PV (solar) cell.

It is funny that that post where you claimed this got a thumbs up response as even after watching some of the demo you ( and whoever agreed with that post ) still appear to have no idea how the device "allegedly" operates.

The idea is to create a small harmless sun ( hence name SUNCELL ) by having continuous plasma bursts (using moisture in air as fuel) in rapid succession that give of almost all of its energy as light. Then this light is harnessed through PV Cells and Fiber optics to create electricity.

see.. no power stations required. No heat required except whats in creation of Plasma Bursts.

they clearly say in the video that they are measuring heat output. nothing about light.

You edited this line into your statement. It originally just said "Utter bollocks".

So I am not editing my initial response.

I will say though,

Seriously? The entire demonstration and 3 hours plus of discussion on that video is entirely about light. You seem to have found something out of context or in relation to something else (maybe their previous CIHT CELLS).

This is entirely about capturing ONLY the light produced.. ONLY the light..

Edited by barfbag
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"but I do not see how you think temperature or heat have anything to do with the power they are generating."

you seem to be deliberately missing the point.

In the video which you present as evidence that others have independently validated this stuff, they say that they are getting "heat production of a very large magnitude".

They are not.

So they do not know what they are talking about.

So you can not rely on them for evidence concerning the validity of the whole showboat.

The only thing that people in the video tested was the emission of heat.

If you say that the process is something else then you are refuting the assertion that the video validates their claim.

If I have no idea how it operates then I'm not the only one. Nor do the people who made the video.

Have you actually watched it?

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If I have no idea how it operates then I'm not the only one. Nor do the people who made the video.

Have you actually watched it?

Well you certainly don't grasp how their SUNCELL is supposed to work if you think it has anything to do with the harnessing of anything other than light.

We are 25 comments into this and you don't seem to have a clue as to how it "allegedly" operates.

You seem stuck on your notion that they want to run a power station, so please show me where you got this misleading information and I will fit it into correct context for you. You seem stuck on that. Show me where that information was because it certainly is not their intention to say that. I further think you took the validators either out of context or in reference to CIHT cells or something.

I listened to it all, and watched most of it, and I do not recognize anything like what your position states.

I cannot believe you are actually arguing that this device is not meant to 100% harness light energy only.

Watch video below starting at 1 hour and 2 minutes in)... This explains their process.

or 1:05:30 ... (I will edit if I find better walkthrough)

@ 1:08:30 an animation is shown.

Specific events included: ignition of H2O-based solid fuel in air and argon atmospheres, calorimetric energy balance determination under argon, EUV spectroscopy of the hydrogen transitions to hydrinos, theory, technical, engineering, and commercialization presentations, and live demonstrations of BlackLight’s Third Generation SunCell with Photovoltaic Conversion of Light to Electricity. The main engineering aspects of the presentation were the complete system design and a unit that demonstrated those elements of the fast ignition and regeneration as well as optical distribution and photovoltaic conversion systems.

@ JohC further,

I cannot believe you have commented on this thread so freely without even understanding the concept. You weigh in with much opinion, but if you cannot even comprehend the topic how can any of your posts here be taken seriously?

I believe others have at least understood the concept.

Edited by barfbag

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