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alkis3

relationship to money in the West

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I am Pro kickbacks at the Olympics don't know,maybe they were

but if to speak about freedom,Edward Snowden said that the American government was listening to private conversations of citizens by phone

is this freedom?

and the American press silent on the fact that in Ukraine the demonstrators attacked the police and shot at the police

many police were injured and many were killed

and perhaps the American press is not to say that in Ukraine bandits go with weapons in public buildings

Snowden is an example of freedom of the press; yes. While the US government would have loved to suppress all he has said, they did not & could not. No less an issue is freedom of speech.

 

If the US press gets ahold of evidence of killing in Ukraine, you can be sure they will report it.

 

You seem to have gotten off your topic of charitableness, which is sorta' OK I suppose because this is your thread. However, it might be better to start a new topic for issues outside your original topic.

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sounds rough.

well it is not that the fascism, Nazism with elements of fascism

there are some very dramatic trends which influence on political Affairs in the country

for example, right sector http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector

in General now in Ukraine the situation is complicated,and involved a variety of interests

 

 

right sector and other radical groups began to threaten the inhabitants of the Crimea

in Crimea there are a lot of Russians ,that Russia had to intervene

 

 

You seem to have gotten off your topic of charitableness, which is sorta' OK I suppose because this is your thread. However, it might be better to start a new topic for issues outside your original topic.

Yes you are right

About main theme

 

 

Мое понимание заключается в том, что американцы являются самыми щедрыми дарителями/жертвователями в мире. Видеть в этом источник: >> http://voices.yahoo....rld-327986.html

this is good

but I was referring to the personal attitude

 

that is, whether the Americans to gift their children car
or for example the Russian guys pay for their girls to restaurants and giving gifts
I know that when American guy with a girl friend at the restaurant ,she pays for itself
Is it true?
and that American parents give children money in debt...
Edited by alkis3

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i'm am just a poor guy but i have coffee.

 

as far as the ladies are concerned i would have to say that it depends on that particular lady. i prepare to pay and if she looks particularly or honestly offended (some american ladies are quite stubborn) then i will let her pay and catxch the tip so i do not feel like a loser.

 

i definitely spoil my child. she is where most of my money goes. my own mother tells me i do too much so point taken.

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and the American press silent on the fact that in Ukraine the demonstrators attacked the police and shot at the police

many police were injured and many were killed

and perhaps the American press is not to say that in Ukraine bandits go with weapons in public buildings

 

The lack of coverage probably has more to do with the general disinterest of the bulk of the American people in overseas events. Most probably couldn't find Ukraine on a map. News is a business, which means it's become more about entertainment than information.

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...

About main theme

 

this is good

but I was referring to the personal attitude

 

that is, whether the Americans to gift their children car

or for example the Russian guys pay for their girls to restaurants and giving gifts

 

I know that when American guy with a girl friend at the restaurant ,she pays for itself

Is it true?

 

and that American parents give children money in debt...

What is your source for 'knowing' how Americans economically treat their children or girlfriends? As I don't know most Americans and don't recall reading any polls on the topic I can't really comment on the economic behavior that you're interested in.

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Hi.

My understanding is that Americans are the most generous givers/donators in the world. See this source: >> http://voices.yahoo.com/america-most-charitable-nation-world-327986.html

 

My understanding about Russia is that no one gets any work done or services rendered without paying kick-backs. Sounds like greed to me.

 

Only tangential to the discussion,but in most rankings, but the linked article is a badly written opinion piece and cherry-picks numbers without providing context (e.g. donations of other nations, fraction of GDP or other nomalization etc.). These types of articles really grind my gears.

For example the tsunami (2004) help from the USA was 0.026% of the GDP, whereas Australia offered 0.255%. This was actually one of the cases where the US responses were comparatively low .

 

That being said, according to most metrics the US is among the most charitable nations (usually within the top twenty). According to the World Giving Index (which is poll based and e.g. asks whether one would help strangers) the USA has currently the highest score (followed by Canada and Myanmar).

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Only tangential to the discussion,but in most rankings, but the linked article is a badly written opinion piece and cherry-picks numbers without providing context (e.g. donations of other nations, fraction of GDP or other nomalization etc.). These types of articles really grind my gears.

For example the tsunami (2004) help from the USA was 0.026% of the GDP, whereas Australia offered 0.255%. This was actually one of the cases where the US responses were comparatively low .

 

That being said, according to most metrics the US is among the most charitable nations (usually within the top twenty). According to the World Giving Index (which is poll based and e.g. asks whether one would help strangers) the USA has currently the highest score (followed by Canada and Myanmar).

 

Acknowledged about the quality of my source. In my defense I was in the heat of the rapid exchange but ready to find more suitable fare if I was challenged. Out of curiosity, where does Russia fall on the World Giving Index?

Edited by Acme

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even if we talk about your statements about the kickbacks

you have learned this from the press

but this is an exaggeration

I was born and live in Russia,and currently have never encountered kickbacks personally

it's the same in Russia can exaggerate the bad information about America

press the same everywhere

no,I argue that the press is not free everywhere

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

 

"The dangers to journalists in Russia have been well known since the early 1990s but concern at the number of unsolved killings soared after Anna Politkovskaya's murder in Moscow on 7 October 2006. While international monitors spoke of several dozen deaths, some sources within Russia talked of over two hundred fatalities."

 

"Those deliberately targeted for their work have tended to be reporters, correspondents and editors. In Russia many directors of new regional TV and radio stations have been murdered but most of these deaths are thought to relate to conflicting business interests."

 

"During a study of international fraud-detection homicide which compared fraud detection homicide cases from the United States of America against fraud detection homicide cases from the former Soviet Republic the murder of Paula Klebenikov illustrated a case of a contract killing of a journalist known to expose fraud in governments. At the time of his murder, he was thought to be investigating complex money laundering fraud scheme involving Chechen reconstruction projects. The investigation appears to reveal that Klebnikov had discovered that the fraud reached deep into the centers of power in the Kremlin, elements involving organized crime, and also the former KGB, which is now known as the FSB."

 

"The CPJ lists Russia as "the third deadliest country in the world for journalists" since 1991, exceeded in the number of deaths only by Algeria (1993–1996) and post-invasion Iraq. It is more revealing, perhaps, to set Russia alongside its G20 partners — not just the USA and France, but also Saudi Arabia and China (see Table 1, in IFJ report). Russia's problem, shared by certain other members of G20 (India, Brazil and Mexico), is not simply one of the number of deaths but that the killing with impunity has persisted over time."

 

Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.

Thomas Jefferson

 

Fear of being murdered for uncovering the truth tends to restrict the process of good journalism. A culture of corruption that suppresses journalist can only exist with the cooperation of corrupt police, prosecutors, judges and government officials.

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Russia is quite at the bottom of the pack, rank 123, same as Mali and Serbia. Jordan and Lithuania and Benin are close by (120) as well as Montengro and Palestinian territory (127).

 

Full report

 

Edit: cross posted, was meant as a reply to Acme's post.

Edited by CharonY

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As a side comment, it seems that Putin's media has done a good job demonising the West.

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Страх быть убитым для установления истины, как правило, ограничивают процесс хорошая журналистика. Культура коррупции, которая подавляет журналист может существовать только при сотрудничестве и коррумпированных сотрудников полиции, прокуроров, судей и чиновников.

now it is not

in period 1991-2000 in the country was a mess

Putin came to power in 2000 and stopped the mess in the country

 

if in Russia now they are threatening to murder for the info this is possible only in two cases
1 information is very very very important state secret
2 information directed against a very rich man,in this case, this person can begin to personally threaten

I am sure that the second case is in America and in any country

 

and first,and than it differs from the situation with Bradley Manning?

 

As a side comment, it seems that Putin's media has done a good job demonising the West.

it's not the media,this is a rumor

 

we in the media did little to discuss the West

If America was once again at war in Iraq or Iran or anywhere else,even on this occasion media say little

for example say that America invaded Iraq and looks for a fictional terrorists and all,and after that all forget about this

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it is not

Maybe it correctly only if you are going to work and get paid more 50 000 dollars in a month

the corruption is, if we are talking about big money

if your salary is less than $ 10,000 a month,that corruption will not be

salary is less than $ 10,000 in 99% of Russians,

what you describe happens to 1-2 % of Russians

 

Corruption has nothing to do with amount of money, percentage of salary etc. It can be even $10-$20.

 

Corruption is when official (paid by government in the most of cases) requires client to pay to do something, or not to do his job.

 

Examples:

- doctor receiving money for better caring patient in hospital.

- doctor moving patient waiting for treatment in queue up.

- police officer canceling ticket for gift.

- police officer telling details about investigation.

- official picking up offer from company after receiving money, instead of picking up the best offer from the all offers provided by companies. This is the most harmful to country from the all listed here.

 

The best way to get rid of corruption is introduction of lie tests.

 

Let's take for example police office taking money for canceling ticket:

Ticket cost $100 for instance.

It's obvious that "gift" must be significant less that ticket (say 50%), otherwise whole bribery wouldn't make sense.

Why somebody would like to pay more than that?

Such police officer must take a few bribes per day to have significant impact on his salary.

Money from tickets that would go normally to government, are ending up in his pocket.

So again government is the most damaged.

Client and officer are happy. One paid less, officer have secondary salary.

Edited by Sensei

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I was born and live in Russia,and currently have never encountered kickbacks personally

 

 

And the plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not evidence. Over a quarter of Russians say that they have had to pay a bribe in the last year.

 

"Of surveyed citizens, 26% report having paid a bribe in the past 12 months."

 

http://country-corruption.findthedata.org/l/138/Russia

 

"Reports by media, academic, governmental and non-governmental organizations portray corruption in Russia as a serious and pervasive problem... Russian bureaucrats take in approximately 125 billion British pounds (GBP) ... in bribes every year: "the scale of graft was close to equalling the state's entire annual revenues" "

 

http://www.refworld.org/docid/46c403811e.html

 

So, it seems fairly unequivocal that Russia has a significant, systemic problem with bribery and corruption (albeit likely to be strongly correlated with socioeconomic indicators) which would suggest that your implication that Russians are intrinsically less greedy than westerners is untrue.

 

I personally imagine that the variation of individual attitudes towards material wealth in both western countries and Russia would swamp out the majority of any general trends.

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For example I can give my friend 5-10% of monthly salaries and not take back

so many people can donate money to the needy in the street

 

But I know that in America or in Europe, many people can not give money even his children,i.e. is possible to give,but return back

is it true?

 

 

 

Alkis3, i live in the Netherlands, and officially we're one of the richer countries in the world.

 

To danswer your question: yes, people here will not easily depart with 5-10% of their income to a friend,

but off course it differs from person to person etc

I shall also give you some insight in the how/why, do keep in mind though that i know more about my country than i know about yours.

 

First of all, our government is big, it spends roughly half of all the money in the country, which means that our taxes also come to roughly half our money.

The government pays for a lot of social security things with that, meaning that if, for some reason, a person doesn't have an income or only a small income,

there is some law for giving that person money.

So if a friend of mine is broke, it means he needs to go to the government, and get some of that money that i paid to it, instead of asking me.

(and yes, i think this may be detrimental to our morals in the long run, but that is another discussion)

 

Secondly, we're a large community, i can easily cross the country from one end to the other by means of public transportation or by car.

Going to work this morning i left my town, crossed a second, and traveled over the outskirts of a third

It's quite easy to meet a lot of people, and to know a lot of people, and there are plenty of people who will try to abuse a caring soul.

 

Most parents will support their kids through college btw, even though the government pays for most things around college,

and a lot of people are caring, but when money gets involved we gotta be more carefull.

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In the US they take 5%-15% off taxes for low income, Than the next up it goes 25%, and 30%. You also get a tax break if you have children, are a business(Business expense) or are married. So they do take a percentage out of your pay check automatically in the US and it goes to taxes.

Edited by Marshalscienceguy

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