tegmark question

[hoola]

the area in question has a perimeter, that is the border between the infinite chaos and the finite "bubble" of organized information within it. The transition between the two is indeed the perimeter boundary. The "example" of logic is the property of information within the bubble having a fixed value or value set. This allow long term relationships to occur within the bubble. That I define as the "observation" of logic occurence.....Exterior to the bubble, in the chaos, the information is there, but is not evolved to the point of determinancy of values, so if the information is of a digital nature, that being something akin to a base 2 computer format, a "bit" will not remain "stable" and will transit to a "no bit" state randomly and then back again. This constant fluxing of value, allows limited time for the information to begin relationships, or exchanges of values between them, except by random transients. It is that inablility to form anything more complex informationally from the basic elements within (as an average condition) , that brands the chaos as having insufficient logic to "evolve" to more complex conditions. The chaos remains unchanged under normal circumstances. It is by the rare conditions I have already written about that randomness dictates an occaisional bit to remain ordered, and those rare bits become the "seed" of logic which can be self-perpetuating under even rarer conditions as described by the "density" requirement. That is the difference. Logic has order and illogic has none ( or a trivial amount), not enough to "do work" and the boundary point, which is expanding as the bubble grows, is the perimeter. I see the universe itself expanding into the chaos, that is what is on "the other side"....logic within, chaos without....just as the primordial few logic based bits somehow persisted in the chaos, everything is from that catalytic seed, which is still growing. Perhaps that continued growth is what we perceive as our universe's cosmic expansion...into the infinite sea of chaos....edd

Edited January 22, 2014 by hoola

[qsa]

previously you said no 13 was born, there was nothing in chaos. Now you are saying chaos has an indeterminate value/s. That sounds like contradiction.

 

Moreover, The whole of chaos is made up of illogic as you say, by what mechanism the illogic becomes logic and the values become fixed. BTW, the value of what becomes fixed.

[hoola]

yes, the number 13 was born, but that is late in the process, that is a result of the geometry of the point. I'd rather talk about chaos....(.basics first .).... I say there is nothing in the chaos but degenerate information.....if I said there was "nothing" there, or left that impression, I am sorry... I will have to re-read the whole thing to be sure. But let me state what I feel now about the issues as it is an on-going thing and subject to mods and re-statements of previous postulations....OK....now, the chaos has information that has a predominant instability (lack of logic), so as to prevent any information within having any long term relationships with each other, as the information, which I see as theoretical "bits" having only randomly occurring appearances and properties, even in the realm of the theoretical. As you see, I have begun to segment out the concept of "theoretical" into 3 basic parts. 1. quasi-theoretical 2. transitional - T. 3. formal T. In the case of the chaos, there is the smooth randomness of complete entropy(quasi-T), as the "particles" ( as they can be thought of), but they're really only theoretical "bits" with no values, but, lets consider them for the sake of illustration that they are particles. First, what is entropy in particles in our universe? It is a reduction to the minimum energy state of a particular particle, if my understanding is correct. What can now be said about this particle? It is still a particle, with a measurable mass, charge and spin.......Now consider the chaos with it's "particles" at complete entropy....they are at their lowest energy level, but also have no measurable mass, charge, spin....not that they don't have any, but they are in constant flux, faster than can allow enough stability within the chaos for an identifiable label to affixed to any point within it....so the quasi-T is the chaos, the formal-T is the interior of the "logic bubble" and the transitional-T is the perimeter surface, where the real work gets done in conversion of chaos's quasi-T to formal-T.....this process is perhaps a catalytic one, vaguely similar to a quartz crystal developing its ordered geometry(more logical) from an amorphous raw material supply (less logically arranged atoms) , I have no serious thinkings yet I will offer on why this is occurs in the transit-T stage. I am interested in thinking about certain aspects of the transit-T. stage, in that , if the chaos bits are there and have a high frequency of variations in their values, then all that needs to be accomplished is to slow down that change to a reasonable lower frequency of change, so mathematical (or force) relationships can be formed. So, it only seems a matter of figuring out how the frequency lowering or "freezing out" the particular contents is required. This seem to indicate that the material is in a super-hot state, and the parameter shifts keep "linkages" between partners from happening......but that is only a rough analogy to a familiar condition...anyway, how "slow" must this speed be in order to allow interactions? If we look at the universe, things do change on their own, with weak radioactivity, proton decay, and related (you probably know more examples than I ) so, one might say that even in our "formal logic-driven" world, parameters do change spontaneously....so there is some handle to start thinking about the "speeds of default change" within our universe, on average, vs. the speeds of change within the chaos, on average....since radioactive decay seems such a easy analogy to what I am referring to, it is tempting to think they are somehow related, in that the frequency of random parameter shifts in the chaos was lowered, but never reached zero....as evidenced by spontaneous decays within our universe..as a hold-over from pre bang...things are still "breaking down" but a vastly slower rate.....edd

I am considering the "break-down" transition period in which a change occurs, similar to the shift of an electron in the valence order of an atom...isn't that supposed to be an instant transition period? That is the rate of changes I am talking about when I say that the possible values of the chaos are always changing....the rate is an equivalent speed as to the electron's shuffling atomic levels....I say the speed is not instantaneous, but much faster than measurable, and that same speed seems to show up in straight line gravity effects and entanglement failure with it's spooky action at a distance...also, the proposed speed of inflation....edd

Edited January 23, 2014 by hoola