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Grenham09

Nerve Gear

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Hello everybody.
Im beginner in science.And i planning to work on project.If you already watched SAO(Sword Art Online) you must know about Nerve Gear.Im going to make Nerve Gear on real life.If you dont know about Nerver Gear i will introduce it.Nerve Gear is helmet that will stop your movement and send you in to 3D game world.That's what i want to make real.My project name is "Ecto Gear".Im exploring about brain.How to connect brain to server?This is my first answer.But i think its possible.And my plan is connect brain to server based on computer and server will connect it directly to Virtual Character.Only thing that i want to know is this possible?Please leave me answer or your opinions.

Hope you will help me. :)

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There are Brain Computer Interfaces. Control real or simulated devices with your thoughts alone.

 

You can get information out, easier than you can put information back in though. Not impossible, just very rudimentary what we have at present. Leg jerk type movements. Progress but pretty trivial in real world terms. We're nowhere near a lush virtual environment being broadcast directly into your brain.

 

Real world you are probably looking at a BCI + Display + Audio system.

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As long as you won't kill us off when we die in-game, I am all in favor of this. :P

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The hard part is safely decoupling the motor system while in this state, a problem not yet solved, not safely. Hospitals use very complicated and expensive chemistry, and it's not without drawbacks, so, the hardest problem i currently see is the safely decoupling and quickly and safely recoupling the motor control without causing neural damage. For everything else to be easy, you want to be able to do this while the subject is in a woken state, otherwise you will also have to work on things like producing images neurally and a slew of other problems which currently require invasive surgeries and have very low resolution.

 

$.02

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The idea is very interesting and fantastic! But realistically speaking, it's hard to imagine how it can be properly brought to reality. The two main problems here are "how to do it safely" and "how to do it at all". The helmet must basically tap into the signals the brain works with, and read as well as replace them. A lot of questions arise at this point.

 

The first issue is how to tap into the brain and tinker with individual neural signals. The only direct way is someone going to a doctor and asking them to install a device in their head, which is able to connect directly with verious neurons. I'm not even sure if that's legal... but even if it is or will be, few will probably be okay with putting a metal in their head permanently. A medicinal way like engineered bacteria / viruses or nanobots might offer an alternative here someday.

 

Of course, we could hope for a way to do this wirelessly all the way. But is there any? As discussed in this thread, it's a difficult if not impossible to trigger neurons through electromagnetism alone. Especially with an accuracy allowing the device to read / write individual neural signals. If someone figures out a way to do that, I'll be truly mind blown.

 

Second problem: Even if being able to read / write from / to neurons was solved, how do you convert binary code into neural code? Scientists don't fully understand the brain yet, and what all of its millions of nerves and connections do precisely. Desciphering the actions going on inside the brain enough to translate it on a computer is another very difficult task. In this case we would need to precisely translate the brain's intentions to move a limb, as well as pipe digital images / sounds / smells / touching of quality, in a way that can't be told apart from reality.

 

Thirdly, there is also huge problem of safety. What if an error causes the game to freeze? If the signals which allow you to move your hands are still redirected, the person won't be able to take the helmet off, and could remain stuck there until someone takes it off or a power blackout saves them. If neither of the two happens within a day, there's already a death risk due to dehydration. Also, if the device requires a pemanent chip to be installed in the brain: The person could be hacked like a computer, and a hacker able to take control of what they see / hear and even how they move. One can only imagine how trolls would use that to make people do crazy or dangerous things... even to commit murders or robberies for them.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want to see the technology happen! I'm a computer nerd, especially focused on virtual reality... I'd be crazy not to. Apart from being able to play games as if they're reality (exactly like The Matrix), this could use the internet to create a global telepathy network, where every person could talk to anyone else at any moment inside their heads! Still, can one really hope? What are the chances?

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I think Ive a detailed way to make this device possible. Ive been doing research for 6 months now. Is anyone interested with hearing my conclusions about how to make this device? Im an inexperienced person in Neuroscience and the use of Microwaves but I came up with logical ideas and possible solutions for this project. I want to gather a team to help create this. I can't do all this by myself because my lack of knowledge and experience. Im prepared for criticism and disencouraging comments. I do want to collaborate and take some action on this. I don't have much knowledge but I think its enough to get this to a starting point

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!

Moderator Note

Enochulous' thread on Nerve Gear has been merged with this existing thread on the same subject.

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then say to us lepton!!!;)sorry for the english, I'm brazillian

sorry, its enochulus(note: i want to know!!!)

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I would really love to see this happen, exept the dying part. I am new to programing but familiar with technology and ideas, msg me if ya need any help!

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I have a couple problems with the way people perceive "fictional to real world" areas of research. The human brain is a complex (if not the most complex) part of the human body. And I do agree with some people that it is a hard process to isolate certain areas, patterns, thoughts, and perceptions of said organ. But my problem is how people think that, because a fictional setting did it one way, that they have to do it in only that way because it "worked" for them when that's not true in the slightest.

 

Onto the good stuff.

1. Microwaves and electromagnetic reactivity: Yes, these are viable fields to research into but, from almost every article I have seen, people are limiting themselves into only these fields of research when there are a monumental amount of other areas that could serve just as well if not better for a real-world application. My favorite area is sensory deprivation mixed with sensory stimulation sciences. By depriving the local senses in the body, you can send "fake" signals to the brain to stimulate that feeling in a relatively safe manner. There are already chambers designed to cut off the senses of the human body in some practices already though it is labelled inhumane to use. If someone could somehow shrink that into the size of a helmet then you would jumpstart the project very far forward. Then you can focus on the sending of artificial signals. How that's done is beyond me at the moment. I would take inspiration from the ideas of synthflesh from science fiction to do that. It stimulates feeling on artificial limbs when on and stops when taken off.

 

2. The gear itself: If you can talk to people who have worked on something similar to what the project requires then get into contact with people in both the medical field and the VR gaming field. If you can apply both of them together then you would have almost a perfect setup. The VR we know know requires movement and a wide open space with what feel like controllers or, my personal favorite, gloves and boots. The medical field is already testing out "microchips" implanted into the brain to stimulate the movement, not the feeling, of motorized artificial limbs. It's an area of interest to many as you would be able to consider yourself a "cyborg" with said technology. Sadly, it is only workable right now with limited use of legs, but it does work. They haven't been able to use it on hands yet because they require fine motor skills and nobody can seem to replicate that at the moment but that is off topic. If you could, without having to implant something in your head with a medical procedure, find a way to integrate both into the same application with some sort of internal broadcast system, that might be your best bet.

 

And, last but not least, 3. Theoretical sciences behind all of this: Like the title says, this is all theoretical. Without actually applying and thorough testing of various methods then you will never find out what works and what doesn't. Simply by finding what doesn't work even helps because it narrows down the list of what does. Remember though, the human brain is extremely complex, can vary from person to person, and scientists don't even truly understand what sleep is for either. Scientests thought light was only limited to where they saw the trail of it but they were wrong. Scientists thought that Pluto and Charon were geologically innert due to being so far from a strong heat source but they were wrong. Heck, even some scientists thought that the laws of physics apply to everything, no matter what it is, even after being proved wrong again and again. Instead of pointing out problems and preaching about how hard this is, try to find solutions. Just because they were wrong doesn't mean they gave up. Instead, they pushed further and learned far more then they thought they would. So do the same as so many scientists and intellectuals before you and achieve greatness by discovering the impossible and making it possible.

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Not sure if it's still relevant to you but, since the technology we have right now is a bit far off from being able to create nerve gear, or in this case "Ecto Gear", look for different ways to stimulate a similar effect. Like Excalibur mentioned, just because it's done one way in fantasy doesn't mean that's the way you have to accomplish it in reality. Now I just ran into this post a few minutes ago in my search for a good science forum and reading over it, I was intrigued by the idea of nerve gear. A lot of the responses have been great but Endy's comment reminded me of some stuff you may find useful. Basically while you can try to send a person into a virtual world via their brain, you can also look into putting the world into the person. The way the nerve gear works, you're surrendering nerve control of your real body for the control of a virtual one. What if you didn't have to do that? When we dream, we are essentially entering a virtual world even if you don't remember your dream. While we're sleeping we have some level of control of ourselves inside dreams without moving in reality. There is this practice of dreaming called "lucid dreaming" in which, as the name infers, you are aware while dreaming. Supposedly you are able to control your dream while in this state making it seem close enough to virtual reality. If you've played the Assassin's Creed series, you'll know about the machine called the Animus, which projects virtual worlds built from memories of ancestors found encoded in DNA. The point I'm trying to make is, you may be able to make a device that induces a specific/detailed dream, creating a single player experience in an artificial world. For a server where multiple people could play, you would need to have a constant cycle of saving and reloading data. There are others ways to do that I'm sure. This is just off the top of my head. Anyway while this is another idea for how your "Ekto Gear" could work, it isn't that much easier then any other idea if at all. This just kind of addresses safety issues. It doesn't make it 100% safe since there is dangers in data conversion, which people need to figure out how to do, but at least you don't have to worry about cutting off the control of your real body since you would essentially be imagining senses in the virtual world. I apologize if what I spewed out doesn't make sense since I didn't really elaborate much. I also apologize if I'm wrong and I am open to criticism. This was just my spur of the moment thoughts but for anyone who found this interesting, look into memory, dreaming, and the science behind the animus and you may get some ideas... or at least make some sense of me. ;)

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you might just want to have the helmate insert 1 or more chips safely into the head, if at all posible. also dont let it intercept the signals to the organs, but everything else. i would love too see this, so msg me when you have a prototype. i would love too test it.

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Hello everybody.

Im beginner in science.And i planning to work on project.If you already watched SAO(Sword Art Online) you must know about Nerve Gear.Im going to make Nerve Gear on real life.If you dont know about Nerver Gear i will introduce it.Nerve Gear is helmet that will stop your movement and send you in to 3D game world.That's what i want to make real.My project name is "Ecto Gear".Im exploring about brain.How to connect brain to server?This is my first answer.But i think its possible.And my plan is connect brain to server based on computer and server will connect it directly to Virtual Character.Only thing that i want to know is this possible?Please leave me answer or your opinions.

 

Hope you will help me. :)

I will love to help you develop it and i volunteer for alpha and beta testing

and i am already making a 3d game which can be vr compatible so lets see how long can this go

best of luck!!!

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To me it seems everyone is fixed sated on the brain but all we need to doo is look for the basic then work from there. I am a electrician by trade and we all the body is gust another electrical device. I propose that every won consider my ideas. If we look at this electrically and not the biology side of it. An electrical system has some basic parts that we need to look at.

First is the voltage applied to the nerves

Second is the amperes moving through the nerves

Third is the frequency of the voltage

Since the body is an AC (alternating current) circuit so if we in theory hook up an oscilloscope and recorded the frequency changes as well as the changes in the ampacity. Then we could start to decode it once it has been decoded we could replicate and or block it using a magnetic field applied to the back of the neck.

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In my thoughts,  using eeg would be a first step.  This allows the brainwashed emitted to control objects in some game consoles such as escaping from lab.  If it was enhances to decipher the waves according to motion and electrical impulses based on the differentiation of the signals sent to the body such as move your hand or wiggle your fingers,  it would be possible using modern day technology to make a character in the game to do the same. Thus making a virtual world be able to be reacted with

 

By the way,  if you would like to talk more with me,  email me at forestalknave0729@gmail.com

Also look at it electrically as well as an eeg format.  The body and mind responds similarly.  As the mind is able to control the body from an electrical signal,  it is also able to think using nuerons fired in the brain allowing one to think and even create an alternate world for a length of time.  This means not only would you need to intercept the electrical impulse,  but interpret the nuerons firing so let's start there as well as with Cody d.  Post from September 13 2017. I would volunteer for beta testing for this also

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Is there anyone interested in that topic? I would like to know about it more and try to help... If i only know how to help. So write if someone still here!

 

 

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On 12/30/2013 at 8:29 AM, Grenham09 said:

Hello everybody.
Im beginner in science.And i planning to work on project.If you already watched SAO(Sword Art Online) you must know about Nerve Gear.Im going to make Nerve Gear on real life.If you dont know about Nerver Gear i will introduce it.Nerve Gear is helmet that will stop your movement and send you in to 3D game world.That's what i want to make real.My project name is "Ecto Gear".Im exploring about brain.How to connect brain to server?This is my first answer.But i think its possible.And my plan is connect brain to server based on computer and server will connect it directly to Virtual Character.Only thing that i want to know is this possible?Please leave me answer or your opinions.

Hope you will help me. :)

post-103033-0-20019100-1388410154_thumb.jpg

My suggestion is that you go to school obtain a PhD in neuroscience, a PhD in electrical engineering and a PhD in computer programming.  i would also suspect that this endeavor would require at a minimum your entire life to accomplish.  An alternative is to hire people with these degrees and create a team to work on this.  The number of technological hurdles to accomplishing something like this is huge.  

If you manage to make this I would like to try it, though I am fairly certain I will be deader than hell before anything like this is made.

Edited by Bufofrog

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On 3/21/2019 at 6:16 PM, Bufofrog said:

My suggestion is that you go to school obtain a PhD in neuroscience, a PhD in electrical engineering and a PhD in computer programming.  i would also suspect that this endeavor would require at a minimum your entire life to accomplish.  An alternative is to hire people with these degrees and create a team to work on this.  The number of technological hurdles to accomplishing something like this is huge.  

If you manage to make this I would like to try it, though I am fairly certain I will be deader than hell before anything like this is made.

Why so? I just mean that, for example first computer was created in 1946. After that only in 1980 we made the first personal computer for home use. ( 40 years ). In 2009 Microsoft has released the operating system Windows 7, which as of 2016 is the most popular OS in the world. ( 29 years ). And finally, in 2012 Oculus Rift made revolution in such thing as VR. And I know that VR topic was developing not one year but I realy belive in such thing as nerve gear.

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1 hour ago, Alsvork said:

Why so? I just mean that, for example first computer was created in 1946. After that only in 1980 we made the first personal computer for home use. ( 40 years ). In 2009 Microsoft has released the operating system Windows 7, which as of 2016 is the most popular OS in the world. ( 29 years ). And finally, in 2012 Oculus Rift made revolution in such thing as VR. And I know that VR topic was developing not one year but I realy belive in such thing as nerve gear.

Charles Bababage or the makers of the Antikythera mechanism might well disagree with you, placing the first computer a hundred and twenty years, or a couple of millenia earlier.  The technology advances you describe that suggest to you the possibility of rapid advance occurred within a field. The successful creation of "nerve gear" would depend upon major advances within several fields.

You have used an analogy to suggest rapid advance is possible. I am using other to demonstrate that rapid advance does not always occur. Both are analogies; either may be correct, but without other evidence or argument they are equally valueless.

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2 hours ago, Alsvork said:

Why so? I just mean that, for example first computer was created in 1946. After that only in 1980 we made the first personal computer for home use. ( 40 years ). In 2009 Microsoft has released the operating system Windows 7, which as of 2016 is the most popular OS in the world. ( 29 years ). And finally, in 2012 Oculus Rift made revolution in such thing as VR. And I know that VR topic was developing not one year but I realy belive in such thing as nerve gear.

VR makes use of your existing hardware.

 

They do have bionic vision working now(has been a few years) but does require surgery, either on the brain or the eye.

I can't see any case where it'll be as simple as slipping on a helmet. Some sort of simulated experience seems doable though if enough data could be safely fed in externally.

Probably use an omnidirectional treadmill or harness rather than paralyzing people. Muscles and ironically nerves would be a pain to do without much gain. Safer too obviously.

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I am no brain expert but how are you going to make the person stop moving because you need to send the "moving signals" to move because you can't really imagine moving your arm to do it because the signals are probably different. also, it is not easy to measure brain signals look at the machines they have to use to it now for brain skills and motor functions. not to mention you would have to make a bunch of custom stuff. like software and parts.

sorry if I did not articulate my thoughts well.

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You have used an analogy to suggest rapid advance is possible.And I know that VR topic was developing not one year but I realy belive in such thing as nerve gear.

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