Just Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 My main purpose is share my idea I do not wish to offend anyone, or put down any religion! Could god ever think of Johnny Cash's Ring of Fire, if Johnny Cash never existed?Unless God's wisdom is infinite (which it often is cited to be, however for the sake of this post we will say it is finite), it would be impossible for him to think of this song, or any piece of art created by man, without first observing it from the artist. This is because art can be created through infinitely many forms (sculptures, paintings, etc) with infinite possibilities in each form, and each work of art can serve an infinite amount of purposes. Now, you may think... "well everything can be made in an infinite amount of ways" things like a method to solve a math problem, or any device used to measure something. The difference between these things and art, is that art can have infinitely many purposes. While there may be infinitely many different solutions to a math equation, all of them have the same purpose, and will lead to the same solution. In conclusion if God had a finite intelligence, and had a finite time to make as many songs as possible, it would be impossible for him to think of Johnny Cash's Ring of Fire without first hearing it from Johnny Cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md65536 Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) I think the argument is flawed. On one hand, God might not exist. That's not so bad because you can start with "Assuming God exists, ..." but that's such a big assumption that it's hard to draw useful conclusions. On the other hand, a god might be able to create unimaginable things, that are greater in any number of ways than any example you bring up. It would be like saying "da Vinci couldn't create the exact paint spill I made while I was distracted eating glue". True but meaningless. However, even assuming that God exists and is not infinite, there's nothing in your argument that contradicts the idea that god created "Ring of Fire" and directly evoked Cash's rendition of it, let alone the possibility that it could if it wanted to. Or foresee it before Cash existed, or foresee every possibility whether or not it exists, etc. To help prove the point, Cash didn't write Ring of Fire. June Carter and Merle Kilgore did. So how can you possibly argue that only Cash could ever think of it? Edited December 5, 2013 by md65536 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPanic Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 What can we do, that God cannot do alone? Play tennis. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilSolution Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Maybe were all schizophrenic versions of god perceiving itself from different perspectives? Perhaps were the combined essence of an angel in exile from heaven for being naughty? Maybe god doesnt exist at all? We're very little.......a spec of gold dust trapped in time. Could god ever think of Johnny Cash's Ring of Fire, if Johnny Cash never existed?Unless God's wisdom is infinite (which it often is cited to be, however for the sake of this post we will say it is finite) Are you defining god in abrahamic terms? The god a pantheism? A personal god we have no comprehension of? Your best bet is saying god is infinite. You would need to clearly define god for a discussion, if gods entropy equals 0 then its not infinite and we all freeze into a motionless 3 Dimensional space. If the big crunch occurs the universe cycles. Do you imagine there is a great database of experience and knowledge that is god? Edited December 9, 2013 by DevilSolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAnonymous Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 My main purpose is share my idea I do not wish to offend anyone, or put down any religion! Could god ever think of Johnny Cash's Ring of Fire, if Johnny Cash never existed? Unless God's wisdom is infinite (which it often is cited to be, however for the sake of this post we will say it is finite), it would be impossible for him to think of this song, or any piece of art created by man, without first observing it from the artist. This is because art can be created through infinitely many forms (sculptures, paintings, etc) with infinite possibilities in each form, and each work of art can serve an infinite amount of purposes. Now, you may think... "well everything can be made in an infinite amount of ways" things like a method to solve a math problem, or any device used to measure something. The difference between these things and art, is that art can have infinitely many purposes. While there may be infinitely many different solutions to a math equation, all of them have the same purpose, and will lead to the same solution. In conclusion if God had a finite intelligence, and had a finite time to make as many songs as possible, it would be impossible for him to think of Johnny Cash's Ring of Fire without first hearing it from Johnny Cash. Thinking of what God cannot do is impossible, since god cannot be compared to humanity. God knows about the smallest things you can ever think or have never thought of. His majesty even knows where a leaf is going to fall and when . God is ultimate. God created us and knows infinitely more than what we know. We prove our theories by what we see everyday, or by evidence. right? God doesn't need any of these stuff since he's the creator of everything including mankind, and therefore his mighty knows about everything. What we know, say, think, or do, does not affect god by anything. We "humans" are nothing compared to his mighty. We need him, but he does not. He is so merciful for keeping us alive after the sins we commit everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Thinking of what God cannot do is impossible, since god cannot be compared to humanity. God knows about the smallest things you can ever think or have never thought of. His majesty even knows where a leaf is going to fall and when . God is ultimate. God created us and knows infinitely more than what we know. We prove our theories by what we see everyday, or by evidence. right? God doesn't need any of these stuff since he's the creator of everything including mankind, and therefore his mighty knows about everything. What we know, say, think, or do, does not affect god by anything. We "humans" are nothing compared to his mighty. We need him, but he does not. He is so merciful for keeping us alive after the sins we commit everyday. Citation please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 What can we do, that God cannot do alone? We're apparently capable of believing strongly in things we can't possibly know about. God can't do that alone, he needs our voluntary irrationality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Your omnipotent God cannot change my mind without me, and a God who guarantees free will cannot do anything to ever affect anyone. Edited December 9, 2013 by EdEarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekan Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 We humans can decide to commit suicide, by jumping off a high building. Can God do that - where would He jump from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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