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yahya515

A new discovery : new source of renewable energy

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Every object hanging on a string (like the simple pendulum) will rotate either clockwise or counterclockwise according to the place where it is ,the force which makes this rotation appears in foucault's pendulum , and the force is proportional to the mass of the object, we can benefit from this force by a device I call (mechanical cell) , in which a 4 kilogram mass hanging can lift 1 cc of water to 10 cm height, if we use thousands of such device we can make flood of water to generate electricity.
so why any hanging object rotates around its vertical axis ?
the planet earth rotates around its axis because it rotates around the sun, the satellite rotates around itself because it rotates around the earth , and the same for the moon and the planets and any object on the surface of the earth rotates with the planet earth around its axis , we are not moving in a straight line.

 

this link on youtube is a video for my experiment :

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Its interesting that it spins for so long, if you wound the rope in the oppsosite direction you could gain more energy, the water spinning device could be a straight dynamo. I'm not too sure of the science here but the energy you get from the system will probably equal the energy used setting the mass on the rope each time. Whats the force that makes it spin counter clock wise from a straight rope??

Edited by DevilSolution

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I experimented with empty 0.5 L aluminum beer can (15 grams weight), connected to normal white thread 1 m long.

 

It was spinning counter clockwise faster and faster for about 2-3 minutes,

then slowed down at 5 minute to no spinning,

and started spinning clockwise for another 4 minutes (with all the time stopper turned on).

Then again changed direction to counter clockwise for yet another 3-4 minutes.

It appears to be slowing down with time.

I have been observing it for 18 minutes.


After filling it with water it's spinning a lot faster. Reached 1 spin per second in maybe 13 seconds after starting up.

It started spinning at reverse direction after 5m 38s (40s longer than empty).

Edited by Sensei

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Its interesting that it spins for so long, if you wound the rope in the oppsosite direction you could gain more energy, the water spinning device could be a straight dynamo. I'm not too sure of the science here but the energy you get from the system will probably equal the energy used setting the mass on the rope each time. Whats the force that makes it spin counter clock wise from a straight rope??

Earth rotation , either clockwise south the equator or counterclockwise north the equator, theoretically it would stop if it was on the equator.

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What you are not seeing in this demonstration is that the string is getting longer as the object begins to spin. The thread has a twisted weave-like structure. The individual strands are interwoven or twisted around each other and together reach a balanced state of no potential energy when at rest.

 

When a string, rope or even steel cable is tensioned it will rotate as the individual strands are pulled straight between its two opposing ends. The mechanism for this rotational is the twist built into the thread. It is utilized when the weight is applied and causes the tension. As Sensei noticed the greater weight increased acceleration. The weight is in reality simply falling, but its acceleration is being delayed by the rotational potential energy built into the strings twisted weave. As the weight is increased the string's release of rotational potential energy increases.

 

Eventually the rotational potential energy in the string reaches zero at the same time the string reaches its maximum length but the momentum in the spinning mass will now counter rotate the string against its original direction of weave and re impose or load rotational potential energy back into the string. So, the larger the weight means the longer this process will continue as the string is unwound and counter wound by the gravity pulling on the falling weight.

 

If you want to disprove this new source of energy simply recreate the experiment using a monofilament string like fishing line.

Edited by arc

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I experimented with empty 0.5 L aluminum beer can (15 grams weight), connected to normal white thread 1 m long.

 

It was spinning counter clockwise faster and faster for about 2-3 minutes,

then slowed down at 5 minute to no spinning,

and started spinning clockwise for another 4 minutes (with all the time stopper turned on).

Then again changed direction to counter clockwise for yet another 3-4 minutes.

It appears to be slowing down with time.

I have been observing it for 18 minutes.

After filling it with water it's spinning a lot faster. Reached 1 spin per second in maybe 13 seconds after starting up.

It started spinning at reverse direction after 5m 38s (40s longer than empty).

It does not slow down with time , the mass starts rotating counterclockwise then when there is enough potential on the string it stops, to turn around clockwise , continuing like this until the potential on the string is opppsite in direction and equal to the torque force, at that time it stops rotating .

 

What you are not seeing in this demonstration is that the string is getting longer as the object begins to spin. The thread has a twisted weave-like structure. The individual strands are interwoven or twisted around each other and together reach a balanced state of no potential energy when at rest.

 

When a string, rope or even steel cable is tensioned it will rotate as the individual strands are pulled straight between its two opposing ends. The mechanism for this rotational is the twist built into the thread. It is utilized when the weight is applied and causes the tension. As Sensei noticed the greater weight increased acceleration. The weight is in reality simply falling, but its acceleration is being delayed by the rotational potential energy built into the strings twisted weave. As the weight is increased the string's release of rotational potential energy increases.

 

Eventually the rotational potential energy in the string reaches zero at the same time the string reaches its maximum length but the momentum in the spinning mass will now counter rotate the string against its original direction of weave and re impose or load rotational potential energy back into the string. So, the larger the weight means the longer this process will continue as the string is unwound and counter wound by the gravity pulling on the falling weight.

 

If you want to disprove this new source of energy simply recreate the experiment using a monofilament string like fishing line.

I apologize , I do not understand one of your words , perhaps because I am not a native speaker, but again I apologize.

Its interesting that it spins for so long, if you wound the rope in the oppsosite direction you could gain more energy, the water spinning device could be a straight dynamo. I'm not too sure of the science here but the energy you get from the system will probably equal the energy used setting the mass on the rope each time. Whats the force that makes it spin counter clock wise from a straight rope??

wounding the rope in the opposite direction is meaningless , this is free energy comes from a source of renewable energy , like sunshine , doing any extra work will be useless.

 

we can not use a straight dynamo , a dynamo will give little electric energy , and thousands of dyanmoes will cause the electric energy to disappear, so using (a tool) to lift little water ( 1cc) and combine thousands of such tools will produce flood of water to generate much electricity, this is the best choise.

 

you are right , the energy you get from the system will probably equal the energy used setting the mass on the rope each time, however long strings will cause the mass to rotate for longer periods, to generate more energy. I am looking forward to seeing such device being developed, especially using modern technology.

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I apologize , I do not understand one of your words , perhaps because I am not a native speaker, but again I apologize.

 

 

I am looking forward to seeing such device being developed, especially using modern technology.

Which word?

And you will wait a long time, because this will barely work.

It is, at best, a tide powered system and those work much better on a bigger scale.

I doubt the effect of the Earth's rotation is measurable with apparatus like you have described.

The spin of the pendulum has nothing to do with the spin of the Earth. It is due to the string untwisting.

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What you are not seeing in this demonstration is that the string is getting longer as the object begins to spin.

 

the string will first get longer a little bit by the weight of the mass, then it will begin to get shorter while the mass rotates,this means rotation will lift the mass above that why the weight of the mass will increase the potential of the string (the horizontal potential which I mentioned for Sensei , which finally force the mass to stop ) this means for big masses the string will only twist a little bit , even if the torque force (which causes rotation) increases by the increament of the mass . you can try this ,take a small mass , hang it with a string , spin it round and round , you will see that the string became very very short and if you do this further it will cut. but I do not understand how the string will become long by the spinning , there is no reason for that. I hope my English is understandable.

 

The thread has a twisted weave-like structure. The individual strands are interwoven or twisted around each other and together reach a balanced state of no potential energy when at rest.

 

When a string, rope or even steel cable is tensioned it will rotate as the individual strands are pulled straight between its two opposing ends. The mechanism for this rotational is the twist built into the thread. It is utilized when the weight is applied and causes the tension. As Sensei noticed the greater weight increased acceleration. The weight is in reality simply falling, but its acceleration is being delayed by the rotational potential energy built into the strings twisted weave. As the weight is increased the string's release of rotational potential energy increases.

 

Eventually the rotational potential energy in the string reaches zero at the same time the string reaches its maximum length but the momentum in the spinning mass will now counter rotate the string against its original direction of weave and re impose or load rotational potential energy back into the string. So, the larger the weight means the longer this process will continue as the string is unwound and counter wound by the gravity pulling on the falling weight.

 

If you want to disprove this new source of energy simply recreate the experiment using a monofilament string like fishing line.

Your point of view is very clever, however I can not violate it theoretically ,on the other hand , here in Sudan people do not fish by themself , rather than in the US , even though we are a poor country, so I do not know what a fishing line looks like , but I took a string and divided it into three threads, I took one of them , it looked a little wavy , however since it is not rubber material , no potential energy will be stored in it anyhow(vertically), and by saying some stored potential energy will appear only if the thread lift weight , this is not true at all .

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here in Sudan people do not fish by themself , rather than in the US , even though we are a poor country, so I do not know what a fishing line looks like ,

 

Fishing line is usually made of plastic.

If you don't know something, enter it in google, and you will have answer.

fishing-line.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishing_line

 

In USA people (small amount. Personally I don't know anybody fishing) are fishing mostly for fun, not for food (except Alaska).

It's such entertainment. Most of them are later releasing fish.

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Hello yahya515, I want to commend you for your study of this phenomena, you have an inquisitive mind and that is what all of us here at SFN have in common.smile.png

You can test your hypothesis from several directions. The first would be to use a single strand of mono-filament, also known as nylon fishing line, it will have a very small initial potential to spin due to its post-manufacturing storage on the spool or in a loose coil. You should see a very small amount of rotation under tension, maybe one or two slow revolutions and then stopping.

 

The other would be to use a single strand of very thin copper wire, like that used in telephone lines. This solid wire should have little or no spin potential and would show the true "beginning at rest" rotational potential your hypothesis claims.

 

Another way would be to use several devises called swivels;

 

post-88603-0-73853700-1391366162.jpg

 

Using several of these (one at the top and one or two at the bottom) should eliminate any potential spin that exists in any string, wire or line.

Edited by arc

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Fishing line is usually made of plastic.

If you don't know something, enter it in google, and you will have answer.

fishing-line.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishing_line

 

In USA people (small amount. Personally I don't know anybody fishing) are fishing mostly for fun, not for food (except Alaska).

It's such entertainment. Most of them are later releasing fish.

Thank you for your information, and I know that USA people fish for fun I see that in movies!

Hello yahya515, I want to commend you for your study of this phenomena, you have an inquisitive mind and that is what all of us here at SFN have in common.smile.png

You can test your hypothesis from several directions. The first would be to use a single strand of mono-filament, also known as nylon fishing line, it will have a very small initial potential to spin due to its post-manufacturing storage on the spool or in a loose coil. You should see a very small amount of rotation under tension, maybe one or two slow revolutions and then stopping.

 

The other would be to use a single strand of very thin copper wire, like that use in telephone lines. This solid wire should have little or no spin potential and would show the true "beginning at rest" rotational potential your hypothesis claims.

 

Another way would be to use several devises called swivels;

 

attachicon.gifimages (1).jpg

 

Using several of these (one at the top and one or two at the bottom) should eliminate any potential spin that exists in any string, wire or line.

These( swivels) are really what I need in order to keep the system moving continuously. Are they expensive?

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If you will be doing science for real in future, I suggest to getting Full HD camera with tripod. The more frames per second, the better.

slr-camera-tripod.jpg

 

It's device that will keep camera in the same position and angle for a long time.

 

Then copy movie from camera to computer, and load it to movie editing software such as VirtualDub (it's free).

You can then precisely find time of some physical event counting frames between start and end of event.

It's much more precise than using stopper.

 

Times you can enter to OpenOffice SpreadSheet application (it's free).

And generate chart.

 

After that you will see what I said in #3 post. That cycles of spinning back and forth clockwise/counter-clockwise are shorter and shorter, the longer experiment is running.

 


These( swivels) are really what I need in order to keep the system moving continuously. Are they expensive?

 

According to Internet some of them costs $1-$1.5 for piece.

 

They are also used by fishing people, so you should find them in fishing shop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishing_swivel

 

http://www.fishingwarehouseshop.co.uk/product_info.php/products_id/5661

It's for 2.61 ukp = $4.4

(10 pieces in package)

so single one $0.44

 

L_XOSC_5661.jpg

Edited by Sensei

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These( swivels) are really what I need in order to keep the system moving continuously. Are they expensive?

 

They should be very cheap, a few cents U.S.

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The mechanism is called a torsion pendulum. It consumes/transforms energy; it is not a 'source' of energy. Some clocks use the mechanism as an escapement, but their source of energy/power is a separate wound torsion spring.
Torsion Pendulum Clock >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_pendulum_clock

Torsion Spring >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_spring

...
Torsional harmonic oscillators

For definition of terms see end of section

Torsion balances, torsion pendulums and balance wheels are examples of torsional harmonic oscillators that can oscillate with a rotational motion about the axis of the torsion spring, clockwise and counterclockwise, in harmonic motion. Their behavior is analogous to translational spring-mass oscillators (see Harmonic oscillator#Equivalent systems). The general equation of motion is:
I\frac{d^2\theta}{dt^2} + C\frac{d\theta}{dt} + \kappa\theta = \tau(t)
If the damping is small, C \ll \sqrt{\frac{\kappa}{I}}\,, as is the case with torsion pendulums and balance wheels, the frequency of vibration is very near the natural resonant frequency of the system:
f_n = \frac{\omega_n}{2\pi} = \frac{1}{2\pi}\sqrt{\frac{\kappa}{I}}\,
Therefore, the period is represented by:
T_n = \frac{1}{f_n} = \frac{2\pi}{\omega_n} = 2\pi \sqrt{\frac{I}{\kappa}}\,
The general solution in the case of no drive force (\tau = 0\,), called the transient solution, is:
\theta = Ae^{-\alpha t} \cos{(\omega t + \phi)}\,
where:
\alpha = C/2I\,\omega = \sqrt{\omega_n^2 - \alpha^2} = \sqrt{\kappa/I - (C/2I)^2}\,


(Sorry the equations don't paste up correctly. Check the link to see them in proper markup.)

 

hope this is ok

 

 

[latex]\frac{d^2\theta}{dt^2} + C\frac{d\theta}{dt} + \kappa\theta = \tau(t)[/latex]
If the damping is small, [latex]C \ll \sqrt{\frac{\kappa}{I}}\[/latex],, as is the case with torsion pendulums and balance wheels, the frequency of vibration is very near the natural resonant frequency of the system:
[latex]f_n = \frac{\omega_n}{2\pi} = \frac{1}{2\pi}\sqrt{\frac{\kappa}{I}}\,[/latex]
Therefore, the period is represented by:
[latex]T_n = \frac{1}{f_n} = \frac{2\pi}{\omega_n} = 2\pi \sqrt{\frac{I}{\kappa}}\,[/latex]
The general solution in the case of no drive force ([latex]\tau = 0\,[/latex]), called the transient solution, is:
[latex]\theta = Ae^{-\alpha t} \cos{(\omega t + \phi)}\,[/latex]
where:
[latex]\alpha = C/2I\,\omega = \sqrt{\omega_n^2 - \alpha^2} = \sqrt{\kappa/I - (C/2I)^2}[/latex]
Edited by imatfaal
getting the latex to work

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Chains work pretty well to demonstrate the lack of spin with removal of the twists. Tested it with my pocket watch earlier today.

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The mechanism is called a torsion pendulum. It consumes/transforms energy; it is not a 'source' of energy. Some clocks use the mechanism as an escapement, but their source of energy/power is a separate wound torsion spring.

Torsion Pendulum Clock >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_pendulum_clock

 

Torsion Spring >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_spring

 

(Sorry the equations don't paste up correctly. Check the link to see them in proper markup.)

torsion pendulum has nothing to do with what I am trying to explain, first of all the energy I obtain from my device is weak , and needs large masses and clocks do not use large masses, second a classical clock does not need my (source of renewable energy ) it operates using a simple pendulum! the torsion penedulum is similar to the simple pendulum , they both oscillate, however my device has nothing to do with oscillations , especially when using what (arc) suggested (swivels).

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torsion pendulum has nothing to do with what I am trying to explain, first of all the energy I obtain from my device is weak , and needs large masses and clocks do not use large masses, second a classical clock does not need my (source of renewable energy ) it operates using a simple pendulum! the torsion penedulum is similar to the simple pendulum , they both oscillate, however my device has nothing to do with oscillations , especially when using what (arc) suggested (swivels).

No; you are mistaken.

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especially when using what (arc) suggested (swivels).

 

yahya,

 

I (and probably everyone else reading this) want you to do your experiment again. Would you please try it with any of the suggested alternatives; the mono-filament nylon, very thin copper wire, a very small chain like the kind used for jewelry or even a hair from a horse's tail. happy.png You need to do this as soon as possible and come back with the results. You need to verify this in as many ways possible. You should do this even before buying the swivels. This should help you to see if you are understanding this phenomena correctly. Take some video if you can. smile.png

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I think the problem is that the energy you put into it is a little more than what you get out of it. You need to expend energy raising a weight to a certain height and then you or a machine needs to expend energy swirling the string. It's not efficient, the process requires more energy to be spent than can be used.

Edited by Colic

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yahya,

 

I (and probably everyone else reading this) want you to do your experiment again. Would you please try it with any of the suggested alternatives; the mono-filament nylon, very thin copper wire, a very small chain like the kind used for jewelry or even a hair from a horse's tail. happy.png You need to do this as soon as possible and come back with the results. You need to verify this in as many ways possible. You should do this even before buying the swivels. This should help you to see if you are understanding this phenomena correctly. Take some video if you can. smile.png

I used thin copper wire , about 12 inches , it turned only 60 degrees angle , then I used a 1 m thin copper wire , it rotated for about 4 seconds, then I used thin rubber it rotated for 7 seconds or more, but for thin copper wire or thin rubber there is a problem which is I will not be able to put big masses for the rotation to appear clearly, then I took a nylon string I divided it into three threads , I took one of the threads I divided it into tiny threads , it barely lift a 100- hundered- gram weight ,it gave the same result. After that I took a chain and I hang a relative big mass on it , it gave the same result. I am not sure if I will be able to video these experiments, since I have a bad quality camera, a person will not be able to distinguish whether I am using string, wire, rubber , or chain.

Chains work pretty well to demonstrate the lack of spin with removal of the twists. Tested it with my pocket watch earlier today.

 

in what direction it rotated?

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I used thin copper wire , about 12 inches , it turned only 60 degrees angle , then I used a 1 m thin copper wire , it rotated for about 4 seconds, then I used thin rubber it rotated for 7 seconds or more, but for thin copper wire or thin rubber there is a problem which is I will not be able to put big masses for the rotation to appear clearly, then I took a nylon string I divided it into three threads , I took one of the threads I divided it into tiny threads , it barely lift a 100- hundered- gram weight ,it gave the same result. After that I took a chain and I hang a relative big mass on it , it gave the same result. I am not sure if I will be able to video these experiments, since I have a bad quality camera, a person will not be able to distinguish whether I am using string, wire, rubber , or chain.

 

Sorry I took so long to get back. Do you feel there was a clear difference in this series of experiments as compared to the original ones you did with the string?

 

The 30+ cm (12") of wire seems to me as being too short to allow enough low resistance rotation, I would think it would need to be at least 4x that length to exhibit the movement.

 

The chain Endy0816 recommended seems to be the best setup if you cannot obtain mono-filament nylon or swivels for your twisted string.

 

With these most recent tests is there now enough reason to continue on to the mono-filament nylon or swivels? What would you expect will happen if you do continue?

Edited by arc

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Sorry I took so long to get back. Do you feel there was a clear difference in this series of experiments as compared to the original ones you did with the string?

 

The 30+ cm (12") of wire seems to me as being too short to allow enough low resistance rotation, I would think it would need to be at least 4x that length to exhibit the movement.

 

The chain Endy0816 recommended seems to be the best setup if you cannot obtain mono-filament nylon or swivels for you twisted string.

 

With these most recent tests is there now enough reason to continue on to the mono-filament nylon or swivels? What would you expect will happen if you do continue?

The speed of the rotation decreased by not using multi-filament string. As I mentioned earlier , I can not violate your point of view theoretically, by tests it seems some kind of extra potential energy is stored in a multi-filament string and appears when it lifts weight, the bigger mass the bigger potential energy.

 

for swivels, they will not work, because the friction of the swivels will hamper the rotation, and I do not think the force increases by the increament in the mass , I do not think it is a force at all, rotation of earth ( around its axis and also around the sun) gives tiny rotation for objects on earth, at constant speed , exatly as rotation of earth around the sun gives the earth rotation around its axis at constant speed(24 hours for one reveloution), however bigger masses will give great kinetic energy, but I am curious about such phenomenon applied to the solar system planets and moons. I do not care about sources of energy , I care about science.

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The speed of the rotation decreased by not using multi-filament string. As I mentioned earlier , I can not violate your point of view theoretically, by tests it seems some kind of extra potential energy is stored in a multi-filament string and appears when it lifts weight, the bigger mass the bigger potential energy.

 

for swivels, they will not work, because the friction of the swivels will hamper the rotation, and I do not think the force increases by the increament in the mass , I do not think it is a force at all, rotation of earth ( around its axis and also around the sun) gives tiny rotation for objects on earth, at constant speed , exatly as rotation of earth around the sun gives the earth rotation around its axis at constant speed(24 hours for one reveloution), however bigger masses will give great kinetic energy, but I am curious about such phenomenon applied to the solar system planets and moons. I do not care about sources of energy , I care about science.

 

You my friend are well on your way to the wonderful joys of careful observation of the natural world. Don't forget to take notes! happy.png And post here often.smile.png

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Thanks arc you are a real scientist.

Edited by yahya515

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That is probably the nicest compliment you could give to someone here at SFN. And it is much to generous to bestow on someone such as myself. I am but a mere novice, a fan of science, amongst the real authentic scientists and research professionals that give to us so much of their time and knowledge.

 

But I do appreciate the sentiment, I did get a little redface.gif and you probably made several dozen people spit their Starbucks out all over their desk this morning. Way to go! High Five! doh.gif

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