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If I can imagine it, it is possible!


ydoaPs

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On 8/9/2021 at 10:13 AM, dimreepr said:

The difference is understanding the knowledge, a crackpot just assumes knowledge is for all to see; without the need of learning.

For instance, can you build a car; because you know how an engine work's? 

 

Well no dimreepr you can't, and I see your point.  The crackpot has stuff working in his or her mind that any scientist knows can not work in reality.

But the other side of the coin is that sometimes I know that what a scientist says is stuff the model says, or the math says or a probability equation says, and I know, from common sense, that it is nonsense.  What I mean is my senses give me information that is NOT consistent with what the scientist says.  The thing fits the model but makes no sense.

For instance scientist say that the models and the math tell them the universe is 79% dark energy.  That makes no sense. We have been in the universe since we started noticing stuff.  How did me miss 79% of what there is to notice?

It seems to me a thing is true if it is true in many ways, not just one.  If dark energy is 79 percent of the universe and now we know that, we should be able to explain 79 percent of the the things we only understood 21 percent of before the discovery.

I suppose that is the other reason I left the board.  I think scientists are just people, same as religious folk.

I give no special wonderfulness to people that believe more in their model than they believe in their neighbor.

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1 hour ago, tar said:

Well no dimreepr you can't, and I see your point.  The crackpot has stuff working in his or her mind that any scientist knows can not work in reality.

But the other side of the coin is that sometimes I know that what a scientist says is stuff the model says, or the math says or a probability equation says, and I know, from common sense, that it is nonsense.  What I mean is my senses give me information that is NOT consistent with what the scientist says.  The thing fits the model but makes no sense.

Makes no sense based on your experience and intuition*, which is not the same as that of many scientists, especially one familiar with the problem.

 

*this is one reason why we urge people in speculations to become familiar with the science surrounding the problem they are trying to solve

Quote

For instance scientist say that the models and the math tell them the universe is 79% dark energy.  That makes no sense. We have been in the universe since we started noticing stuff.  How did me miss 79% of what there is to notice?

It's hard to see it. Maybe we've missed a similar amount of stuff in the ocean, because it doesn't reside near the surface. There was a time, not so long ago, we didn't notice protons and neutrons and electrons. Had no clue they were there — too small to see — until we built the tools to detect them. We've only known about the different atoms for a relatively short time. How come people in 1700 had no clue about Tellurium? Or most of the elements, for that matter? (Only a dozen or so were known at that time) How did we miss all that?

There was a time when people had no clue about other continents in the world. They had to explore to ind new places. But being unaware doesn't men these other places didn't exist.

 

 

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On 8/10/2021 at 1:15 PM, swansont said:

Makes no sense based on your experience and intuition*, which is not the same as that of many scientists, especially one familiar with the problem.

 

*this is one reason why we urge people in speculations to become familiar with the science surrounding the problem they are trying to solve

It's hard to see it. Maybe we've missed a similar amount of stuff in the ocean, because it doesn't reside near the surface. There was a time, not so long ago, we didn't notice protons and neutrons and electrons. Had no clue they were there — too small to see — until we built the tools to detect them. We've only known about the different atoms for a relatively short time. How come people in 1700 had no clue about Tellurium? Or most of the elements, for that matter? (Only a dozen or so were known at that time) How did we miss all that?

There was a time when people had no clue about other continents in the world. They had to explore to ind new places. But being unaware doesn't men these other places didn't exist.

 

 

Swansont,

Well of course you are right about all those things we didn't notice, and science found them for us...but we are talking about dark matter and dark energy here which, for I can see exist ONLY in the equations.  That is only in the model and the imagination.  You can't say "well that explains illness" like you could when we found germs.

Regards, TAR2

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1 hour ago, tar said:

Swansont,

Well of course you are right about all those things we didn't notice, and science found them for us...but we are talking about dark matter and dark energy here which, for I can see exist ONLY in the equations.  That is only in the model and the imagination.  You can't say "well that explains illness" like you could when we found germs.

Regards, TAR2

No, there are data which point to their existence. Much like there were data that pointed to the existence of the neutrino, before we could actually detect a neutrino.

AFAICT the problem here is you are not familiar enough with the reasons scientists think dark matter and dark energy exist. That's probably one reason your common sense says it's nonsense. Another is that some of science is just plain weird and outside of common experience, and therefore not intuitive. Which would make "common sense" moot. You're wielding a NERF sword in this battle

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4 hours ago, tar said:

Swansont,

Well of course you are right about all those things we didn't notice, and science found them for us...but we are talking about dark matter and dark energy here which, for I can see exist ONLY in the equations.  That is only in the model and the imagination.  You can't say "well that explains illness" like you could when we found germs.

Regards, TAR2

They are solutions conceived to fix a problem, which they then see if the data agrees.

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On 8/12/2021 at 2:46 PM, swansont said:

No, there are data which point to their existence. Much like there were data that pointed to the existence of the neutrino, before we could actually detect a neutrino.

AFAICT the problem here is you are not familiar enough with the reasons scientists think dark matter and dark energy exist. That's probably one reason your common sense says it's nonsense. Another is that some of science is just plain weird and outside of common experience, and therefore not intuitive. Which would make "common sense" moot. You're wielding a NERF sword in this battle

Actually I don't think the universe is weird at all. It fits together quite nicely.  Works better than the model.

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