When is NOW . Is it NOW all over the Universe right NOW ?

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Or NOT ?

 

Oh I forgot. Here is a Picture of NOW I painted earlier today, having discussed it quite a bit with like minded colleagues.

 

 

 

 

There is a yellow bit that represents the NOW .

There is a Dark Green Bit ...............................

There are a series of Light Green Bits ............

Edited April 24, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[iNow]

Now is the moment that consciousness manifests its creation... that ever vanishing point of endless change where brain interactions from moments ago trigger other brain interactions and ultimately cross an arbitrary threshold we call awareness.

 

Now is the cross-section of space and time where entropy engages with possibility.

 

That's the poetry answer. The physics answer is that there is no universal frame of reference, and your now is different from my now, and the experience of now is dependent on our relative motion no matter where or when we are in the universe.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Now is the moment that consciousness manifests its creation... that ever vanishing point of endless change where brain interactions from moments ago trigger other brain interactions and ultimately cross an arbitrary threshold we call awareness.

 

Now is the cross-section of space and time where entropy engages with possibility.

 

That's the poetry answer. The physics answer is that there is no universal frame of reference, and your now is different from my now, and the experience of now is dependent on our relative motion no matter where or when we are in the universe.

 

Did not inflation go zz z..i...i..T very early on and the grid fabric of four dimensional space -time spread out all over the place.

 

If the whole universe then followed with the big bang, quantum soup, plasma and all and all quarks, nuclii. electrons, recombination, stars galaxies to NOW .

 

Then being part of or in [space-time] we are within [space 3d location and time 1d NOW ] or at least past present{NOW} future.

 

We are conscious at the NOW . We remember the PAST and anticipate the FUTURE..

 

But where is everybody else and everywhere else. Are they in their own NOW different from mine. Or are they in some universe wide NOW , that came out of inflation and is moving through the cosmos like some GIANT WAVEFRONT all at the same NOW ?

Edited April 26, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[krash661]

lol,

Edited April 26, 2013 by krash661

[michel123456]

Did not inflation go zz z..i...i..T very early on and the grid fabric of four dimensional space -time spread out all over the place.

 

If the whole universe then followed with the big bang, quantum soup, plasma and all and all quarks, nuclii. electrons, recombination, stars galaxies to NOW .

 

Then being part of or in [space-time] we are within [space 3d location and time 1d NOW ] or at least past present{NOW} future.

 

We are conscious at the NOW . We remember the PAST and anticipate the FUTURE..

 

But where is everybody else and everywhere else. Are they in their own NOW different from mine. Or are they in some universe wide NOW , that came out of inflation and is moving through the cosmos like some GIANT WAVEFRONT all at the same NOW ?

_Where is everybody else?

They are upon the simultaneity sphere that expands from you at c.

 

_Are they in their own NOW different from mine.

You don't have a single NOW, but a succession of many "NOWS". And so do other people: they have a lot of "NOWS", some of them may correspond to yours, some may not.

 

_Or are they in some universe wide NOW , that came out of inflation and is moving through the cosmos like some GIANT WAVEFRONT all at the same NOW ?

I don't know.

But if there is such a wavefront, it is not observable. You cannot observe what is in your present far away from you. You can only observe the past of what is far away from you. So this wavefront would be part of the unobservable universe, exactly like the future (which is also in the unobservable part of the universe). IOW your question resumes to ask whether the future already exist. And there again my answer is I don't know.

 

-----------

PS are you sure your painting is not upside-down?

Edited April 26, 2013 by michel123456

[iNow]

But where is everybody else and everywhere else. Are they in their own NOW different from mine.

As I already shared above, yes.

Or are they in some universe wide NOW

No.

[michel123456]

.No.

No? Now i know Inow knows.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

A) Now is the moment that consciousness manifests its creation... that ever vanishing point of endless change where brain interactions from moments ago trigger other brain interactions and ultimately cross an arbitrary threshold we call awareness.

 

B) Now is the cross-section of space and time where entropy engages with possibility.

 

C) . The physics answer is that there is no universal frame of reference, and your now is different from my now, and the experience of now is dependent on our relative motion no matter where or when we are in the universe.

 

I can in total understand and agree (A)

 

Not sure about B) . Could you expand on this a bit . And how does this tie in with consciousness. Is Consciousness the only contact with the NOW. Are other things just change.

 

C) Sounds a bit like Relativity. Does NOW need to be tied into the relative motion of things OR the time it takes light to travel between Frames of reference. Might not the NOWNESS of NOW be above all that.?

 

Does it require another consciousness to be at another location to detect NOWness.

_Where is everybody else?

They are upon the simultaneity sphere that expands from you at c.

 

_Are they in their own NOW different from mine.

You don't have a single NOW, but a succession of many "NOWS". And so do other people: they have a lot of "NOWS", some of them may correspond to yours, some may not.

 

_Or are they in some universe wide NOW , that came out of inflation and is moving through the cosmos like some GIANT WAVEFRONT all at the same NOW ?

I don't know.

But if there is such a wavefront, it is not observable. You cannot observe what is in your present far away from you. You can only observe the past of what is far away from you. So this wavefront would be part of the unobservable universe, exactly like the future (which is also in the unobservable part of the universe). IOW your question resumes to ask whether the future already exist. And there again my answer is I don't know.

 

-----------

PS are you sure your painting is not upside-down?

 

You Mean Like This :-

 

 

No way hosay I have my feet on the ground. At least when I last looked .

 

The yellow bit is the NOW , off to the right or left of the main channel into the future are other passages of possibilities , with at a relevant moment in the future may be chosen as a reality at the then NOW moment.

 

I don't like the other people having their NOWS at a different time to me. How do or can we know .?

Edited April 26, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[iNow]

Might not the NOWNESS of NOW be above all that.?

 

That doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

Does it require another consciousness to be at another location to detect NOWness.

 

No, consciousness is not required to collapse the wave function.

[swansont]

The discussion is meaningless without a definition of "now"

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

The discussion is meaningless without a definition of "now"

 

 

Dictionary definition almost unreadable and ambiguous.

 

Wikipedia Bundles it with Present :-

 

The present (or now) is the time that is associated with the events perceived directly and in the first time,^[1] not as a recollection (perceived more than once) or a speculation (predicted, hypothesis, uncertain). It is a period of time between the past and the future, and can vary in meaning from being an instant to a day or longer.

 

 

So on reading through the various slants on NOW / ( PRESENT ) on Wikipedia it seems very closely linked with conscious recognition of the moment as described above.

 

So we have a proposed definition: I think there is scope for discussion of the implications of this.

 

Like, If there were no conscious beings around , would there not be a NOW anywhere at all ? And before Humans appeared on Earth , was there no NOW around on Earth ? What about up on some moon , near some distant star with no life on it, is there no NOW there ? Is there no NOW at all ( clearly there is as I can feel it, sense it ! )

 

 

 

I still have a hunch ( just a hunch ) there is a universal NOWness that just passed by everywhere just now !

Like some Gynormous Wave Front . In fact we ride the wave. Go with the flow ! ( what a Roll ! )

Edited April 27, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[michel123456]

(...)

 

 

I still have a hunch ( just a hunch ) there is a universal NOWness that just passed by everywhere just now !

Like some Gynormous Wave Front . In fact we ride the wave. Go with the flow ! ( what a Roll ! )

The Pencil Universe in which (it is believed that) nothing can happen.

[Przemyslaw.Gruchala]

So on reading through the various slants on NOW / ( PRESENT ) on Wikipedia it seems very closely linked with conscious recognition of the moment as described above.

 

Conscious was ridiculous idea since beginning..

 

Anti science idea.

 

Like, If there were no conscious beings around , would there not be a NOW anywhere at all ?

 

Your computer at 3 GHz is doing f.e. 3 billion operations per second, so in time t0 it's reading memory at address x, then 1/3 billion of second later it's reading address x+4 (f.e.), then 2 * 1/3 billion of second later it's reading address x+8 etc. etc.

Does your computer processor needs your conscious to work?

Is it stopping working when you're going elsewhere leaving computer running?

You can't even tell which part of code your computer is working at the moment 'now'. After 1/3 billion of second it's completely different. And after 3 billion operations later (for you just 1 second later), it's far far away..

The most of time computer procedures are loops, waiting for user action. It has to wait billions of operations from its point of view, for you doing something like clicking mouse, pressing key, constantly doing same operations (wait loop).

 

f.e.

while( user_clicked == false )

{

sleep( 1 mili second );

}

 

 

And before Humans appeared on Earth , was there no NOW around on Earth ?

 

Going that path you will start wondering whether Earth is simulation where humans are living, but there is other thread about it

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/74454-could-reality-be-a-computer-simulation/

 

Computer games render only part that are directly seen by players. There is no sense rendering something what is not visible. It's waste of resources. If we're living in simulation made especially for us, then cat or dog that you leave at home, doesn't exist when you're closing doors. It should disappear to not waste resources for rendering something meaningless.

 

What about up on some moon , near some distant star with no life on it, is there no NOW there ? Is there no NOW at all ( clearly there is as I can feel it, sense it ! )

 

 

Since Einstein time is dimension. So 'now' is some t0. You can't catch any dimension. Neither x,y,z nor t.

 

Position x,y,z on Earth, even it's object at rest from our perspective, in reality is constantly changing.

Earth is orbiting around Sun, Sun is orbiting around galaxy, and galaxy is moving in the space.

So any x,y,z,t0 on Earth, is not the same as x1,y1,z1,t1, all coords are different.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Przemyslaw.Gruchala

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Conscious was ridiculous idea since beginning..

 

Anti science idea.

 

 

Your computer at 3 GHz is doing f.e. 3 billion operations per second, so in time t0 it's reading memory at address x, then 1/3 billion of second later it's reading address x+4 (f.e.), then 2 * 1/3 billion of second later it's reading address x+8 etc. etc.

Does your computer processor needs your conscious to work?

Is it stopping working when you're going elsewhere leaving computer running?

You can't even tell which part of code your computer is working at the moment 'now'. After 1/3 billion of second it's completely different. And after 3 billion operations later (for you just 1 second later), it's far far away..

The most of time computer procedures are loops, waiting for user action. It has to wait billions of operations from its point of view, for you doing something like clicking mouse, pressing key, constantly doing same operations (wait loop).

 

f.e.

while( user_clicked == false )

{

sleep( 1 mili second );

}

 

 

 

Going that path you will start wondering whether Earth is simulation where humans are living, but there is other thread about it

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/74454-could-reality-be-a-computer-simulation/

 

Computer games render only part that are directly seen by players. There is no sense rendering something what is not visible. It's waste of resources. If we're living in simulation made especially for us, then cat or dog that you leave at home, doesn't exist when you're closing doors. It should disappear to not waste resources for rendering something meaningless.

 

 

 

Since Einstein time is dimension. So 'now' is some t0. You can't catch any dimension. Neither x,y,z nor t.

 

Position x,y,z on Earth, even it's object at rest from our perspective, in reality is constantly changing.

Earth is orbiting around Sun, Sun is orbiting around galaxy, and galaxy is moving in the space.

So any x,y,z,t0 on Earth, is not the same as x1,y1,z1,t1, all coords are different.

 

 

Humm ! What with your comments on a simulation universe and Michel and his pencil universe . I need to unscramble my Brain . I am going out for a long walk with the Dog.

 

I would like to think things are simple not complicated. However we will have a think and see !

Edited April 27, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Przemyslaw.Gruchala, on 27 Apr 2013 - 09:09, said:

Conscious was ridiculous idea since beginning..

Anti science idea.

Your computer at 3 GHz is doing f.e. 3 billion operations per second, so in time t0 it's reading memory at address x, then 1/3 billion of second later it's reading address x+4 (f.e.), then 2 * 1/3 billion of second later it's reading address x+8 etc. etc.

Does your computer processor needs your conscious to work?

 

 

 

What you are saying , surely , is that the universe is 'ticking along like the clock in a CPU in a computer. and that human consciousness has nothing to do with that clock ?

 

May Be. But if you remove consciousness totally out of the picture in the Universe , then you could ask ... whats the point of everything else ?

 

No Consciousness anywhere in the Universe . Then whats the Universe for : just being there ?

 

 

Whats the point of having a computer, if YOU or no consciousness ever look at it , or use it to calculate or print out. If there was no consciousness to give it a task, or program or read the screen . What is the use of the computer?

 

It might as well never exist. !

Edited April 30, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[iNow]

Now, define consciousness in a consistent, agreed upon, and measurable way.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Now, define consciousness in a consistent, agreed upon, and measurable way.

 

 

Great Video . I missed it. the blue dot , between the Blue lines

 

 

Popped it up here in case others missed it like me.

 

Sorry iNOW I am an idiot. I have just gone back on your past posts , and I see now , you have it as your Sub script .

 

Mike

Edited May 10, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[robinpike]

What you are saying , surely , is that the universe is 'ticking along like the clock in a CPU in a computer. and that human consciousness has nothing to do with that clock ?

 

May Be. But if you remove consciousness totally out of the picture in the Universe , then you could ask ... whats the point of everything else ?

 

No Consciousness anywhere in the Universe . Then whats the Universe for : just being there ?

 

 

Whats the point of having a computer, if YOU or no consciousness ever look at it , or use it to calculate or print out. If there was no consciousness to give it a task, or program or read the screen . What is the use of the computer?

 

It might as well never exist. !

 

It's a bit like this...

 

A rock sitting in a field has no awareness of the universe.

 

Take the electrons and protons that are in the rock and put them together in a different way to make a person, and you now have something (someone) that is aware of the universe.

 

True, the electrons, protons and photons - the universe - might as well not exist if there is nothing in the universe that has awareness of the universe, but that doesn't stop such universes from coming into existence.

[iNow]

Great Video . I missed it. the blue dot , between the Blue lines

 

I'm glad you enjoyed the pale blue dot video. I like it, too. It's really good at giving perspective and has some profound points. However, I'm not sure how it's really relevant here in this discussion about whether or not there is one universal "now" shared by all.

 

To my point above that there is not, the video below probably does a better job of sharing why this is so (specifically starting at about 2 minutes in).

 

[futuretech1281]

by looking at your paint it does explain your question to NOW.

 

if you view your painting from the front it looks if it goes far distance but if you step to the side of your

paint you will then see a frame which is only probably a inch thich.

 

so you see we are only seeing the front view of NOW.

 

there for everything is in one NOW.

 

[Popcorn Sutton]

A while ago I had a thought that expansion could be confused with contraction. It would be strange to relate this to now, but I will try.

 

All nows (past present and future) are becoming smaller at a very fast rate, and hence, all time exists now. The problem with looking into the past is that it has become so small that the only tool we have to access it is our brains. It's the same for the present and the future. The future is just bigger than the present and the past, but it would still exist in the same now.

 

This can be validated if contraction turns out to be the case (as opposed to expansion).

Edited May 11, 2013 by Popcorn Sutton

[ajb]

"Now" is a specifed Cauchy surface in a globally hyperbolic space-time. It allows you to pick an "instant of time", set initial conditions and determine the future and past uniquely.

 

This is the most useful notion of "now" globally.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

"Now" is a specifed Cauchy surface in a globally hyperbolic space-time. It allows you to pick an "instant of time", set initial conditions and determine the future and past uniquely.

 

This is the most useful notion of "now" globally.

 

Today/Tomorrow 22nd May 2013 Prof Lee Smolin [From the out post of Princetown University] " The Perimeter Institute in Canada " releases his Book on TIME 00:00:00

 

Where he proposes the only REAL time is NOW .

Edited May 21, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[iNow]

From his perspective, sure.