How can a autodidact without formal education propose his theory?

[John Cuthber]

Since, whatever you may say, there's urea in sweat there's not a lot of point in continuing with this.

Get back to us when you have accepted that reality is real.

 

Incidentally, the stuff that I singled out as being excreted in sweat is a plant product

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sotolon

Would you like to try again?

[Consistency]

Since, whatever you may say, there's urea in sweat there's not a lot of point in continuing with this.

Get back to us when you have accepted that reality is real.

 

Incidentally, the stuff that I singled out as being excreted in sweat is a plant product

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sotolon

Would you like to try again?

 

I have accepted the fact that urea is found in sweat but its false that urea is toxic.

As I stated before.. read this study carefully... http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/09546639609086881

 

The studies are done on meat-eaters. They don't apply to plant-eaters. Find me a study of 100% vegans regarding sotolon.

 

I have been a plant-eater for years.. I don't need deodorant, I don't need to wash my hair, I don't need to wash my penis, I don't need to shower. I don't have toxins protruding through my pores.

[John Cuthber]

I have accepted the fact that urea is found in sweat but its false that urea is toxic.

As I stated before.. read this study carefully... http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/09546639609086881

 

The studies are done on meat-eaters. They don't apply to plant-eaters. Find me a study of 100% vegans regarding sotolon.

 

I have been a plant-eater for years.. I don't need deodorant, I don't need to wash my hair, I don't need to wash my penis, I don't need to shower. I don't have toxins protruding through my pores.

OK, I give up. There's no way I can make someone see sense if they are happy to post that message to the entire internet.

Just a quick parting thought: eat lots of fenugreek.

 

For the benefit of anyone else who is still reading this (possibly for laughs rather than education).

As I pointed out there's a wiki page dedicated to uraemia which is, in essence, the toxic effect of too much urea in the blood.

 

It has been a long time since anyone said anything about Vitamin B12.

People don't produce it. Bacteria do.

If any is produced on our skin by the resident bugs that's all well and good; but it would be difficult or impossible to quantify how much (if any) of that gets into the body. A major problem would be the very small quantities involved- You would probably need to radio-label the stuff. Good luck getting that past the ethics committee.

 

The answer to the question which forms the title of the thread is "by not talking nonsense" (and you probably don't want to tell the editor how often you wash your penis).

Edited March 3, 2013 by John Cuthber

[Phi for All]

 

Plant-eaters that eat their leafy greens have the strongest immune systems. While everyone I came in contact with this winter had the flu... the flu virus didn't even budge my immune system. Shitty diet equates to near defenseless immune system.

 

Evidence that your version of "autodidact" includes assertions based on self-selected sampling. VERY bad habit.

 

Nice try at conflating omnivores with "shitty diets". The fact is that poor immune systems exist in both vegetarians and omnivores. Being a plant-eater doesn't automatically give you a healthy diet.

 

I have been a plant-eater for years.. I don't need deodorant, I don't need to wash my hair, I don't need to wash my penis, I don't need to shower. I don't have toxins protruding through my pores.

 

If you brushed your teeth you'd see that your dentition marks you as an omnivore.

[Consistency]

As I pointed out there's a wiki page dedicated to uraemia which is, in essence, the toxic effect of too much urea in the blood.

 

You need to read the wikipedia page...

 

In kidney failure, urea and other waste products, which are normally excreted into the urine, are retained in the blood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uremia

 

What are these other waste products? Uric acid?

 

A lot of molecules that are in the blood are toxic at high levels.. glucose.. blaming urea because someone has kidney problems is dishonest to urea.

 

Urea frost is urea powder? So.. where is the toxicity?

 

It has been a long time since anyone said anything about Vitamin B12.

People don't produce it. Bacteria do.

 

I never said we do. I said we stimulate bacteria to produce it with a molecule found in sweat. This molecule is many times higher in sweat than is found in the blood and definitely not toxic; before you start poking at it.

 

Technically.. we co-produce it.

 

If any is produced on our skin by the resident bugs that's all well and good; but it would be difficult or impossible to quantify how much (if any) of that gets into the body. A major problem would be the very small quantities involved- You would probably need to radio-label the stuff. Good luck getting that past the ethics committee.

 

Commensal bacteria*** There is B12 transport proteins in sweat which have an affinity for B12.. would radio-labelling still work?

 

Evidence that your version of "autodidact" includes assertions based on self-selected sampling. VERY bad habit.

 

Nice try at conflating omnivores with "shitty diets". The fact is that poor immune systems exist in both vegetarians and omnivores. Being a plant-eater doesn't automatically give you a healthy diet.

 

The data....

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10500983

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/62/6/1221.short

http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0899-9007%2899%2900267-1/abstract

 

If you brushed your teeth you'd see that your dentition marks you as an omnivore.

 

If you studied neurogenesis you'd see that omega 6's primarily drive brain evolution.

[John Cuthber]

"You need to read the wikipedia page...

In kidney failure, urea and other waste products, which are normally excreted into the urine, are retained in the blood.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uremia"

 

I did. I read the word "and" in there.

 

Incidentally, other materials are excreted in the sweat so, even if you ignore the toxicity of urea, the point still stands.

Sweat is, among other things, an excretory pathway.

Discoloured sweat is, for example a documented side effect of l dopa.

 

If you studied evolution (the word means change) you would know that our ancestors were omnivores.

If they hadn't been then they wouldn't have been able to pick up enough calories (and other nutrition) to spend time doing anything but eat.

The whole rise of humanity depended on eating meat.

It let us leave the grazing to other animals while we got on with the clever stuff.

 

 

 

And re. ALA being "definitely not toxic", here's a clip of the side effects of using it.

" Check with your doctor if any of these most COMMON side effects persist or become bothersome when using Aminolevulinic acid Solution:

Burning; crusting; flushing; itching; loss of skin color; redness; scabbing; scaling; skin blisters; skin wasting; stinging; swelling; tenderness."

 

So, it's not toxic- unless you get a solution of it on your skin.

[Phi for All]

The data....

 

Strawman. It's obvious that those who focus on healthier diets are better off than those who don't, vegetarian or omnivore. My argument is that there are plenty of bad eaters on both sides of the vegetarian-or-not debate. Just being a vegetarian isn't a magic pill for health. I'd stack a steak-eater who also enjoys an array of fruits and vegetables up against a french-fry and canned soup vegetarian any day.

 

Anyway, since you're not proposing any "theories" in this thread and your version of autodidactism is practically rigor-free cherry-picking and fallacious assertions that ignore anything that doesn't fit with what you think you've learned, I'm going to stop wasting my "discussion" time here. Best of luck with the journals, please keep us posted with any successful publications. I'm pretty sure you won't be telling us about the rejections.

[Consistency]

"You need to read the wikipedia page...

 

In kidney failure, urea and other waste products, which are normally excreted into the urine, are retained in the blood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uremia"

 

I did. I read the word "and" in there.

 

You still haven't explained where the toxicity is... lets see some pictures of uremia toxicity caused by urea... urea frost or drird urea is just a benign side effect of kidney damage.

 

Incidentally, other materials are excreted in the sweat so, even if you ignore the toxicity of urea, the point still stands.

Sweat is, among other things, an excretory pathway.

Discoloured sweat is, for example a documented side effect of l dopa.

 

Its obviously an excretory pathway when the kidney's are damaged. Where else are the excess molecules going to go?

 

Now.. why would the body throw away amino acids, vitamins, minerals onto the skin? Have you ever had a sauna?

 

Exogenous intake of L-DOPA?

 

If you studied evolution (the word means change) you would know that our ancestors were omnivores.

If they hadn't been then they wouldn't have been able to pick up enough calories (and other nutrition) to spend time doing anything but eat.

The whole rise of humanity depended on eating meat.

It let us leave the grazing to other animals while we got on with the clever stuff.

 

If you actually read the journals, not paleo diet made-up nonsense, you would see that the diet of our predecessors was high in plants and that current day humans are fortunate to have this amount of meat available to them.

 

http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/EvolutionPaleolithic/Eaton%20Paleo%20Nutri%20Review%20EJCN.pdf

 

Calories doesn't equate to a bigger brain and neither do Omega 3's directly. Gorillas eat more calories and omega 3's daily than us and they don't have bigger brains. Carnivores also don't have bigger brains from eating all that meat...

 

We were mostly selfish gatherers through our evolution.. nuts, fruits, edible leaves and the occasional animal. I am not doubting we ate meat but meat was for survival purposes.. calories and absolutely not required for brain evolution.

 

And re. ALA being "definitely not toxic", here's a clip of the side effects of using it.

" Check with your doctor if any of these most COMMON side effects persist or become bothersome when using Aminolevulinic acid Solution:

Burning; crusting; flushing; itching; loss of skin color; redness; scabbing; scaling; skin blisters; skin wasting; stinging; swelling; tenderness."

 

So, it's not toxic- unless you get a solution of it on your skin.

 

I never said it wasn't. Aminolevulinic acid is not found in sweat. What are you talking about?

 

Aminolevulinic acid is the first intermediate molecule in the heme/porphyrin/chlorophyll pathway.. http://www.genome.jp/kegg-bin/show_pathway?org_name=ko&mapno=00860&mapscale=1.0&show_description=show

 

Strawman. It's obvious that those who focus on healthier diets are better off than those who don't, vegetarian or omnivore. My argument is that there are plenty of bad eaters on both sides of the vegetarian-or-not debate. Just being a vegetarian isn't a magic pill for health. I'd stack a steak-eater who also enjoys an array of fruits and vegetables up against a french-fry and canned soup vegetarian any day.

 

Anyway, since you're not proposing any "theories" in this thread and your version of autodidactism is practically rigor-free cherry-picking and fallacious assertions that ignore anything that doesn't fit with what you think you've learned, I'm going to stop wasting my "discussion" time here. Best of luck with the journals, please keep us posted with any successful publications. I'm pretty sure you won't be telling us about the rejections.

 

I was talking about vegans, not vegetarians. Vegetarians eat dairy and in my view... are omnivores in denial.

 

I understand your point but meat causes body odor and promotes the growth of putrefactive bacteria in the intestine.

 

I proposed it already. 3rd post on page 4.

 

I won't be proposing anything because the experts are brainwashed on the true purpose of sweat.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Consistency

[John Cuthber]

This is just silly.

"I understand your point but meat causes body odor"

I suspect that many of us know some vegetarians who disprove that.

 

Humans are "designed" as omnivores. In the past our diets had a lot less meat in, but there was always some and that's where we got a lot of B12 from.

So saying "if you actually read the journals, not paleo diet made-up nonsense, you would see that the diet of our predecessors was high in plants and that current day humans are fortunate to have this amount of meat available to them." doesn't tell anyone anything.

 

"Calories doesn't equate to a bigger brain and neither do Omega 3's directly."

Nope, but without access to calories it doesn't matter how big your brain is: you are too busy eating to do much thinking.

Eating meat let our ancestors get a lot of calories relatively quickly. That left them time to develop a society.

 

"I never said it wasn't. Aminolevulinic acid is not found in sweat. What are you talking about?

Aminolevulinic acid is the first intermediate molecule in the heme/porphyrin/chlorophyll pathway."

So, it's the first step in the synthesis of B12, but you say that happens in sweat (thanks to bacteria) but that there's none of the precursor ALA.

 

What are you on about?

 

Come to think of it, I have another idea.

Lets just pretend that the last 5 pages didn't happen and that you started here with a post that says something like

 

Human biochemistry isn't able to make B12

But we need to get it from somewhere.

The commercial process uses fermentation, in particular it uses a bacterium propiobacterium acnes.

As you might guess from the name, that bug is found in the sebaceous glands.

 

Is it possible that part of the human requirement for B12 might be derived from those bacteria on our skin?

In particular could there be some sort of symbiotic relationship dating back to the days of our vegetarian or, at lest, more nearly vegetarian ancestors.

If the body is in some way doing this deliberately then you might expect the skin to contain carrier proteins for B12.

You might also expect to find that other materials which the bacteria would use would be present in sweat.

 

 

Now, if you can fill in references that back up some bits of that (and are not from crackpot sites that preach that meat is bad for you) then you might, possibly, get some recognition, as long as you lose the attitude and don't fill in posts with cobblers about evolution not being real.

[Consistency]

Vegetarians aren't vegans. Learn to read what I post.

 

A vegan or vegetarian diet substantially alters the human colonic faecal microbiota

http://www.hablemosclaro.org/pdf/noticias/A_vegan_diet_alters_the_human_colonic_faecal_microbiota.pdf

 

Nuts are calorie dense food.

 

You are wrong about human evolution because meat lacks omega 6's.

 

Omnivores? Not in a million years. Our brains have been shrinking.

 

I'm done here.

[John Cuthber]

Vegetarians don't eat meat and I assure you that this behaviour does not ward off body odour.

The "hippy" movement was known for a number of things, one was vegetarianism....

Who cares about vegans: they weren't under discussion ?

 

"A vegan or vegetarian diet substantially alters the human colonic faecal microbiota"

No S**t?

So does drinking beer. If anyone had said that it didn't then that would be relevant.

 

 

"You are wrong about human evolution because meat lacks omega 6's."

No I'm not. I might have been had I said that people were obligate carnivores, but I said we are omnivores.

 

"Our brains have been shrinking."

"Royal we" I guess.

Edited March 4, 2013 by John Cuthber

[CaptainPanic]

!

Moderator Note

Thread closed

I'm done here.

Good. So is everybody else.

This thread has been breaking enough rules already.
To everybody involved, please read our forum rules, as well as the additional rules for the Speculations forum, before starting another thread like this.

Thread closed.