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Did God create the universe?


Arjun Artro
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Our current best scientific understanding says the universe began with the big bang. This theory is supported by a number of independent observations of the cosmos, including the Cosmic Microwave Background, expansion of the universe, amount of hydrogen, helium, lithium, and beryllium in the universe, etc.

 

This in turn is based on general relativity and quantum mechanics. But these two established theories -- validated in numerous observations and tests -- tell us nothing about what happened at time zero of the big bang. They break down and give us infinities for answers.

 

So no one knows what happened at the big bang, what caused the big bang, or what, if anything, happened before the big bang. There are lots of new theories, but none have been substantiated by empirical evidence. So, although they are fun to contemplate, at this point they are all mere speculation.

Edited by IM Egdall
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That animals that get banged will be naturally selected?

 

Yes, let's start with life creation;

Think about the development of life. What was the concept before Darwin's time?

Don't you agree that most of the people believed that the life had been created in some sort of big bang which create all life versatilities???

Darwin had proved that it was wrong concept. "The lives of all we see have descended over time".

Therefore, we had stopped thinking on life creation and started to think on life evolution.

There is still a question how the first cell of life had been created, but we have some speculations.

 

With regards to the universe creation:

it might be a similar story.

Darwin rejects the concept of big bang for creation.

All we see in the universe have descended over time.

Hence, there must be a mechanism which generate new mass as the universe expends.

Edited by David Levy
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My personal take on this, and it is my personal take, no science involved, I think that the beginning of the universe is similar to atomic decay. Nothing, or what ever existed before what we see as the universe came into being, this before the beginning state, is unstable and decays into a big bang. I have no idea how stable or unstable it is and it might not matter.

 

Much like an unstable atom, the decay is random and cannot be predicted, but it evidently does occur... it may well be true that only one space/time like universe exists or it might be true that space/time like universes come into being regularly due to this decay but we cannot see them or detect them... so far...

 

I know, flame me...

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We can find what happened at the time of the big bang, but only for values of time > 0. For any other values of time including t=0, it is impossible to find what there was because the phenomenon hasn't left any trails or clues for us to move on with.

From a dead body we can find how he looked like, what kinda food he ate etc but we cannot find out what all things went through his mind , even at the time of death. , as it doesn't leave any trails behind.

We just get the outline and not the complete picture. Same is the case with the universe and all those stuffs.

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With regards to the universe creation:

it might be a similar story.

Darwin rejects the concept of big bang for creation.

All we see in the universe have descended over time.

Hence, there must be a mechanism which generate new mass as the universe expends.

 

Darwin was talking about selection of species that made them more biologically adept because they had traits whereby they could function in their enviroment better than a rival for that enviroment. You CANNOT compare natural selection to the Big Bang. The Universe has changed over time but has NOT "descended over time."

 

I believe the most logical answer it that all the matter in the Universe came together in one place. The Big Crunch perhaps? Think of the BIGGEST Black Hole ever! Then at some point and for some reason, a chain reaction caused all of this matter (subatomic particles?) to explode. The Big Bang. Ever see an explosion? The material thus ejected is uneven in its distribution. Much as we see in the present Universe. We can see the early Universe as it WAS 13.7 billion years ago. The things we see at 13.7 billion years ago are no longer there and haven't been for perhaps billions of years. Those objects from where we see them have been moving outward from THAT point and the Universe may in fact be MUCH older than 13.7 billion years. The future of our Universe, I believe, is that there will be another Big Crunch. This then followed by another Big Bang and so on.

As for time: Time is the measure of durations of events and the intervals between them. This is a purely human concept. So to say that you could stop time or go back in time, I think is wrong. We move forward in time only as a consequence of our being alive. At the "time" of the Big Crunch and just before the Big Bang, I believe there was time if perhaps only in the psychological sense. In other words if there had been someone there to observe then they (had they some time keeping device) would be able to measure the time involved. (sort of the: If a tree fell in the woods and no one was there to hear it . . . . . . . .)

Edited by Roger_XR
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You CANNOT compare natural selection to the Big Bang. The Universe has changed over time but has NOT "descended over time."

 

Yes, We can!!!

Darwin also verified the landscape. He had found Shells Fossils at the top of the mountains. I assume that He understood that this is not a natural habitat for the Shells. So, it must descended over time.

 

 

 

 

Think of the BIGGEST Black Hole ever! Then at some point and for some reason, a chain reaction caused all of this matter (subatomic particles?) to explode. The Big Bang.

 

 

O.K.

Let's think on a black hole – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole

Wiki – "A black hole is a region of spacetime where gravity prevents anything, including light, from escaping"

Now, let's add all the back holes in the universe to it. Billion? 10 Billion? Billion of Billion?

Lets also add all the galaxies, visible matter and dark matter in the universe.

Now, what might be the gravity of this back hole?

What kind of force is needed for light escaping?

What is the chance for any matter escaping???

 

Darwin had rejected the concept of life creation by some sort of big bang.

I assume that Darwin concept by definition rejects the current concept for the Big Bang Theory.

 

"All we see have descended over time"

 

At Darwin's time, the concept was that the Earth life is much less than 100 thousand years.

What is the chance that the universe life if much much more than 13.75 billion years???

Edited by David Levy
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I assume that He understood that this is not a natural habitat for the Shells. So, it must descended over time.

 

 

No, it ASCENDED over time.

 

 

 

Darwin had rejected the concept of life creation by some sort of big bang.

I assume that Darwin concept by definition rejects the current concept for the Big Bang

 

 

Not only don't you have any real conception of physics, you apparently have no idea what Darwin said either. (BTW, it had nothing to do with physics or cosmology in any way.)

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I think to understand this science and religion have to work together. There can not be one without the other

Science exists and functions marvelously without religion. Interestingly, science only seems to get in religions way since one is made up and based on wish thinking/fantasy while the other is based in reality and repeatable observation. I really cannot accept your assertion above. While it may sound poetic or even profound to some, it's quite plainly false.
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I recently saw 'Stephen Hawking special- Did God create the universe? ' , a program in the Discovery channel. The great mind concluded that he believes there's no god, and before the big bang, there was no space or time to begin any creation. And that everything was made from "nothing".

So i was thinking, okay, there may not be a God, but what was this "nothing"? If the Big Bang started from an atom sized thing, how did it appear in the first place? If space is not "nothing", then what is it?

For those who want to watch the program, search the title in youtube.

Thanks in advance

I've always thought of "God" AS the ever-expanding universe that is a set of unbreakable rules that guide all the moving bodies therein.

 

We are just a drop of water in that every expanding sea of expanse... God isn't one thing, but rather everything, and how it works within itself.

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Our universe is inherently logical.

 

I know, I sound like Spock. But it seems to me to be true. Stripped of everything else, what is left is a logical universe. That is why humans can come up with mathematical equations to describe the behavior of physical phenomena. No matter what working scientific theory we look at-- including Hawking's -- at its foundations is the fact of logic.

 

So here's my question. Who or what made the universe logical?

 

I was thinking about this recently. Did the laws arise from the material, or did the material arise from the laws?

Remember that mathematical equations and visual aids are abstract human constructs. They are representations of macrophenomena that are actually comprised of microphenomena.

We know that matter follows different rules when it takes different forms. But is the new form a consequence of the new rules, or are the new rules a consequence of the new form? Both rules and forms can be comprised of simpler rules and forms.

 

I haven't studied physics.

 

 

That animals that get banged will be naturally selected?

 

Things that perpetuate perpetuate, things that spread spread, and things that do neither whither away. Aside from random mutation and competition, these are the underlying principles of evolution, and they can be applied to many things. Yay, logic!

Edited by Mondays Assignment: Die
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  • 2 weeks later...

I recently saw 'Stephen Hawking special- Did God create the universe? ' , a program in the Discovery channel. The great mind concluded that he believes there's no god, and before the big bang, there was no space or time to begin any creation. And that everything was made from "nothing".

So i was thinking, okay, there may not be a God, but what was this "nothing"? If the Big Bang started from an atom sized thing, how did it appear in the first place? If space is not "nothing", then what is it?

For those who want to watch the program, search the title in youtube.

Thanks in advance

Arjun,

 

It depends on what you mean by "God." An all-powerful individual that created everything? No. God did not create our universe. God goes against every piece of science ever known to man, including evolution, symbiosis, you name it.

 

Cancer

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It depends on what you mean by "God." An all-powerful individual that created everything? No. God did not create our universe. God goes against every piece of science ever known to man, including evolution, symbiosis, you name it.

 

Cancer

"God did not create our universe." That is quite a bold statement. Can you back it up at all?

 

And if you would, can you please explain what you mean when you say 'God goes against every piece of science ever known to man'?

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  • 2 months later...

Dear Master Stephen Hawking,

 

Let me first say "thank you"! My life is more fulfilled because of the knowledge you have communicated to others.

 

Now down to business. Concerning your latest teaching on did "God" create the universe.

 

The most intelligent scientist seem to believe that the universe = energy and space.

 

Where does the evolution of intelligence fit in to this theory.

 

And is there a measure of intelligence that keeps it bound within the current universe.

 

Bruce 1964

 

ps: My grandma called me master bruce at an early age as we would play different types of games mostly involving numbers.

 

It made me feel good.

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