P_Rog Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Since the first law of thermodynamics says that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted to one form or another....then the amount of energy when the universe was created would be total amount of energy available in the universe? Is there a way to know how much energy there was when the universe was created? Or maybe can one quantize the amount of energy say on earth and the atmosphere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Tycho?] Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Yeah pretty much, energy cannot be created or destroyed as far as anyone knows, so the amount of energy in the universe should remiain constant. There might be some estimates on it, but I dont actually know if there are any ideas on how much it would be. You could estimate the energy of the earth if you felt like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 One way to work it out (I don't know if it is the way that has been used): 1. Estimate the size of the universe. 2. Estimate the energy concentration between galaxies and in galaxies (this isn't as hard as it seems). 3. Work out the galaxy concentration of the universe (again, samples should do) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taylor Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Since the first law of thermodynamics says that energy cannot be created or destroyed' date=' only converted to one form or another....then the amount of energy when the universe was created would be total amount of energy available in the universe? Is there a way to know how much energy there was when the universe was created? Or maybe can one quantize the amount of energy say on earth and the atmosphere?[/quote'] [Nodding] Limited Energy and limited matter! Not taking into account, as yet unknown physics! So all that mass and energy had to be here already...condensed in one "cosmic singularity" [which they repute to having limitless mass! I'm not buying that] If there are "finite" numbers and "bullet-proof" mathmatics then JaKiri has pretty much given you the solution. -Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iamunique42 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 What of the energy of light which constantly leaves the galaxies in every direction? Light is constantly being given off from stars etc. and being bounced around, but it's also being expelled from the galaxies outwardly. In this way, the light is always travelling away from its source and will theoretically reach the edge of all galaxies one day, at which point it will be lost from the amount of energy within the measureable universe, being that it is no longer within universal limits. If the universe can be measured, then it must have edges, yes? If energy is constantly lost beyond these edges, then what is to keep the universe ticking forever? Won't the universe eventually run itself out of energy availible for nuclear fusion and all other things we've come to know by this shedding of light to the deep cosmos? Won't the aforementioned limited energy be dispersed beyond the galaxies as we know them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Energy can't escape the universe as far as we know it. Energy and universe is like ants walking around on a floating 8-ball or something (not those suicidal ants that jump to their death when they feel like it). And when the 8-ball gets bigger, if the amount of ants is constant, the ants are just more scarce, yet they remain, no matter how much they run around. (It had to come to this. I was getting analogy-shakes. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt_f13 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Where did the idea of conservation of energy come from? I hope it wasn't just the observation of lab experiments. Has any form of negative energy been discovered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairychild Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Energy can't escape the universe as far as we know it. Energy and universe is like ants walking around on a floating 8-ball or something (not those suicidal ants that jump to their death when they feel like it). And when the 8-ball gets bigger' date=' if the amount of ants is constant, the ants are just more scarce, yet they remain, no matter how much they run around.[/quote'] yes i support this theory too. i believe there are way more dimensions than the human can perceive and comprehend. we are born into some kind of a bubble, with borders, limitations. so "energy" as we know it can only exist within these borders, but could - in some cases - have different character and leave. there might be other forms outside which our mind cannot see. just like a 2-dimensional ant couldnt see the sky above an 8-ball, nor could ever possibly imagine to go beyond into a third dimension and reach the opposite of the ball in a shorter time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iamunique42 Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Energy can't escape the universe as far as we know it. Energy and universe is like ants walking around on a floating 8-ball or something (not those suicidal ants that jump to their death when they feel like it). And when the 8-ball gets bigger' date=' if the amount of ants is constant, the ants are just more scarce, yet they remain, no matter how much they run around. (It had to come to this. I was getting analogy-shakes. )[/quote'] Sorry for not posting in so long... A's on finals, went partying with a friend... I'm back now, though. In any case, if the 8-ball of the universe is expanding, then will it expand to the point where energy will still be in the universe but not near enough to anything to run nuclear fusion and all the other fun things that allow for everyday life to go on? Even if no energy can escape, how can we know if all the energy is really going to be near enough to be useable? This probably wont be a problem to humanity, though, as I don't think we'd last long enough to find out what happens when universal energy is too far away to be used. I can understand that not all energy can be tangible, and possibly that we can't see it all the time (crazier things have happened in this universe), but the question remains, how can we tell how much there is if we can't see it all, and will it run out or away? Ants do occasionally wander away from the hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caesar Rahil Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 From the time when the universe was created till date, the amount of energy is supposed to be the same. The Only thing is, that it may be in a different form becouse of energy conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed84c Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Heres a spreadsheet i knocked up a while ago may be of some interest, Note its in .txt because the stupid PHP wouldnt let me upload .xls Energy At Big Bang.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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