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psi20

Bullies

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so, you want to wrap your children in bubble-wrap and protect them from the world? you can't do that; there are some things that you can't learn by being told. i made my own mistakes and learned from them. i think i am better for it.

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there are some things that you can't learn by being told. i made my own mistakes and learned from them.

I agree totaly with that part, with experience comes wisdom, and wisdom can`t be taught without it.

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So it's better for every generation to go back to looking at their square wheels and wondering why they don't work quite like they expected??

 

We've learned from our mistakes, why can't we teach our children the knowledge we've gained from those mistakes??

If we can do it with things from square wheels being wrong up to murder being wrong why can we not do it with the things inbetween...

 

There's no way around the fact that in teaching our children to stand up to bullies themselves that there's a chance there could be serious consequences for those children. If myself and a group of neighbours approached the scrotes (technical term for nasty scum bag type people ;) ) who live down the street and we all force them to move home, I wouldn't be surprised if those scrotes took it upon themselves to seek vengence, petrol bombing those who forced them to move... Taking that action against those scrotes is a gamble over whether they will seek vengence or not. I can remove that gamble from the equation by reporting them to the authorities and getting them sorted out that way. With no come back to myself or my property.

If I decide to take that action then it's my decision, it's my property and my life I'm gambling with.

 

You're telling your kids to go and stand up to bullies themselves.

So you're willing to let your kids take a gamble on whether they'll get picked on even more after standing up to them, what if that involves them getting stabbed or beaten severely??

Isn't it more sensible to tell them the right way to report the bullies to the teachers so there's no chance of any come back to them??

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I know some general reasons why people bully others, but I want to know about this kind of bully in particular.

When you say that he acts aggressively towards you and tries to befriend you afterwards, that makes me think he’s witnessing something similar at home (I believed someone mentioned this before). Usually when a husband beats his wife, he tries to act kind afterwards, hoping she’ll forgive him and think he won’t do it again. But, it does happen again. The bully sees this cycle, and thinks it’s the way situations like this should be treated.

 

His need to be the center of attention may also be a result of violence at his house. It’s possible his parents are too busy going through the cycle of fighting and making up to pay attention to him.

 

If he’s always being nice to the teacher, and to you after he treats you badly, my guess is that he’s afraid of his parents finding out about his behavior. His actions are those you would see in an abused and/or neglected child, and in the case of abuse he’s probably afraid he’ll be beaten if his parents find out.

 

I know it's ironic, but I want my revenge!

“An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.” ~Mahatma Gandhi

 

in 3rd grade, this kid was bulliing be and i broke his nose. no one has ever bullied me since.

I did the same thing sometime in elementary school. People stopped bullying me for a while, but the person who was bullying me told a teacher who then told my parents. I got a big beating for that, and when the bullies saw that I was back to my shy self they just started their old behavior again.

 

---

 

I suggest that you talk to a teacher about what this bully has been doing to you (and possibly others). If your school offers group counseling, that would be a good thing to try out. Talk to your guidance counselor about what has been happening, and my guess is that he/she will arrange a meeting with both of you without the bully knowing it was your idea. It’s easier said than done, believe me- I know, but from what I’ve seen this has been one of the most successful methods in solving issues such as this.

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I had this problem in middle school, though rarely with physical violence. I was always being picked on and called names. I was lucky enough to have my own friends who went through this too, so I wasn't alone.

Anyway, I always tread with caution whenever an identified bully walked near. I went through school in fear. Fear that I'd be picked on, laughed at, rejected by my peers. These kids were the "popular kids." They were a big group with the most friends.

Until recently, I always thought of them as such, as the "popular kids." Then, I realized the only reason I was afraid of them, was because I thought of them as superiors. I knew I was smarter, but they had more friends and they put me down, so I believed them. I actually felt inferior to them.

I decided, in my last year of school, that I wasn't going to take it any longer. I was going to treat them, the same way they treated me. Instead of hiding when they made fun of me, I'd make fun of them back. They'd insult me, I'd insult them. It worked. They still make fun of me, but now it's in jest.

We have a mutual semi-respect for each other. And I've made some friends (acquaintances, at least) too.

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Bullies who are verbal and bullies who are physical can be quite different. In my opinion, unless we are talking about Hannibal Lecter, it is easier to deal with purely physical bullies.

 

Simply pretend that they are untrained dogs. They will make your life hell unless you show you are alpha. Hitting should be a last resort. I suggest loudly spoken commands like "SIT!" "STOP!" "STAY!" Watch a few television shows on dog training or better yet take your dog to a professional trainer and watch him/her in action. It's all in the tone of voice, the body language and the extended eye contact. Physical bullies are usually rather simple. They are usually trying to make contact in crude ways. I don't suggest you scratch them behind the ears when they behave. A firmly spoken "That's better" will probably do.

 

Sometimes, if they just don't understand, you may have to resort to threats, as in: "You do that one more time and I will send the police/principal/my attorney/the teacher/the school counselor to your house to talk to your father/mother." Then, of course, you must follow through. Never make idle threats to a bully. It only makes them worse.

 

Whatever you do, don't just take it. It destroys your self-esteem if you do.

 

I wouldn't take the rubber band incident too seriously. He probably really just wanted to hold your hand. Tell him he's not your type.

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You're telling your kids to go and stand up to bullies themselves.

So you're willing to let your kids take a gamble on whether they'll get picked on even more after standing up to them' date=' what if that involves them getting stabbed or beaten severely??

Isn't it more sensible to tell them the right way to report the bullies to the teachers so there's no chance of any come back to them??[/quote']

reporting bullies makes them want to stab you even more.

and if they don't know who reported them, they'll just go to the person they bully the most often.

 

also, authorities won't do anything. 1/4th of authorities will simply say "just ignore them". 1/4th will say "you should talk to them about your feelings". 1/4th will say "i'll talk to them about it". 1/5th will say "what, are you a tattle-tail?". the remaining 1/20th has a chance to take the kid into custody temporarily, and/or talk to their parents. about 90% of that ends up hurting the kid, a lot.

 

and also, would you have your kid be tormented constantly through school, always being called a "tattle-tail" until driven into madness?

 

 

So it's better for every generation to go back to looking at their square wheels and wondering why they don't work quite like they expected??
why would anyone ever make a square wheel? if anyone where to try to make a wheel, they would have, at the very least, a basic concept of physics, or they would never have wanted to make a wheel. a basic concept of physics is all that's necessary to realize that a square wheel would never work, ever. just drop some rocks and they'll learn that square wheels won't work.

and it's 1000 times better to tell everyone WHY square wheels won't work than to simply tell everyone THAT square wheels won't work.

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reporting bullies makes them want to stab you even more.

and if they don't know who reported them' date=' they'll just go to the person they bully the most often.

 

also, authorities won't do anything. 1/4th of authorities will simply say "just ignore them". 1/4th will say "you should talk to them about your feelings". 1/4th will say "i'll talk to them about it". 1/5th will say "what, are you a tattle-tail?". the remaining 1/20th has a chance to take the kid into custody temporarily, and/or talk to their parents. about 90% of that ends up hurting the kid, a lot.

 

and also, would you have your kid be tormented constantly through school, always being called a "tattle-tail" until driven into madness?[/quote']

 

There are right and wrong ways of doing it.

For a start off nobody needs to know other than the teacher s/he tells and they don't even have to do it covertly. If a few went and reported the bullies behaviour it would be even more effective.

 

why would anyone ever make a square wheel? if anyone where to try to make a wheel, they would have, at the very least, a basic concept of physics, or they would never have wanted to make a wheel. a basic concept of physics is all that's necessary to realize that a square wheel would never work, ever. just drop some rocks and they'll learn that square wheels won't work.

and it's 1000 times better to tell everyone WHY square wheels won't work than to simply tell everyone THAT square wheels won't work.

 

I was using square wheels as metaphors for going right back to the start with each generation so they have to learn through the same mistakes we did.

 

And you're right, it is 1,000 times better to tell everyone why square wheels don't work instead of just telling them they don't work. So it's better to prevent kids bullying each other by telling them why it's wrong and alter their behaviour rather than forcing them figure it out for themselves.

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You're telling your kids to go and stand up to bullies themselves.

So you're willing to let your kids take a gamble on whether they'll get picked on even more after standing up to them' date=' what if that involves them getting stabbed or beaten severely??

Isn't it more sensible to tell them the right way to report the bullies to the teachers so there's no chance of any come back to them??[/quote']

 

so make your kids let other kids beat the living F*** out of them and then have them tell the teacher? looks like less of a chance of injury to the person being bullied in my way.

 

There are right and wrong ways of doing it.

For a start off nobody needs to know other than the teacher s/he tells and they don't even have to do it covertly. If a few went and reported the bullies behaviour it would be even more effective.

 

people always say that, but the people that say it appearently don't know that IT DOESN'T WORK. in school, they tried to feed us this "I messege" bullshit. when they figured out how gay that is, they went back to "tell a grown up." the thing is, the adults aren't able to do anything but beat the shit out of the kids(which is illegal), or wait until the bullie does enough damage to get him arrested.

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Good ol' bullies. The bane of every kid's childhood existance. When I went to elementary school I was severely bullied. It all came out of nowhere too, and started with one kid who I generally considered a friend. (I still have no clue why he turned into an outright prick). Anyway, throughout school him and his cronies would kick my legs out from under me as I walked, make up stories that I was swearing and telling them to the teacher, and pretty soon everybody followed in since they thought it was funny. I was soon outnumbered by the entire school who got a kick out of making my life miserable. It got to the point where I would fake being sick just so I didn't have to go to school and deal with it. This happened all throughout 5th and 6th grade, and continued into middle school. Finally, one day in 7th grade I had as much as I could take. In the past, I was so scared about retalliating and getting in trouble with my parents and the school, but at this point I didn't care. I felt that the benefits of my retaliation would feel much better than the grounding/suspension I would get. One day I was feeling pretty ill with a cold but went to school anyway. I had gone to the bathroom and on my way back to class there was one of the pesky dick-heads who had been harassing me. He tried to start something with me and picked the wrong day. After he tried to trip me, I turned around and started wailing on him. I threw him to the ground and started beating the living crap out of him. I kept slamming his head into the ground and punching him in the balls and in the gut, with an occasional shot to the face. One of his 'friends' was walking by and started hitting me, so I took him on too. Sure I got a few shots to my head and my back, but I took out the both of them. They were a bloody mess and were crying so hard it felt great. The initial bully I was beating on wound up needing stiches, and the second one had a few black eyes. I had a pretty swollen side of my face and some bruises all over, but I didn't feel a thing. I felt great for fighting back and causing severe pain to those two dildos. Sure I got in trouble at school, but since the administration knew that I was generally a good kid and never caused much trouble, I only got 'suspended' for that following Friday. (The beating took place on a Thursday). I probably would have stayed home anyway since I was pretty sore and my hand was killing me from all the punching. My parents weren't too happy, but they oddly enough didn't punish me. I guess they knew the crap I was going through and was shocked that I could fight back like that. Never again was I bullied in school. People were actually shocked that I would fight back and to that severity. The kid I severely beat on was out of school for a week and never even spoke to me ever again. THAT was what felt great. I think he realized that he had taken it too far and he could wind up far worse in the future.

 

So while I don't advocate violence, if you're getting picked on constantly in both a verbal and physical manner, and people think of you as a 'weakling who won't fight back', sometimes violence is needed. In my case, nobody thought I would fight back so they felt as if they could pick on me without any fear of recourse. Finally, I did fight back and suddenly people saw that they could get severely hurt if they pushed the wrong buttons. I wasn't a strong kid and I'm not really a physically strong adult, but it's AMAZING what you can do when you are incredibly enraged and past your breaking point. :D

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Great responses.

 

The reason why I said there were more than one bully was because people bully for different reasons. Most of the people who bullied jdurg probably weren't ever in jdurg's classes. They were probably just going along with the crowd. I've met different kinds of bullies. Some attack based on hate crimes. Some attack based on what they see at home, feel at home, etc. Some attack because what they see on tv, movies, media. Some attack to feel superior. Some attack because they think they have to attack based on their reputation.

 

I "had" a couple bullies in my class this year. They made fun of me, bullied me, etc. However, they failed some of their tests and I suggested I could help them since I set the curves on the test. They agreed so now we're friends.

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Jdurg, whatever works for you.

 

You are sort of avoiding the fact that not everyone is capable of that sort of violence or has that sort of strength.

 

Sometimes it helps to have an adult ally. True (but rather shocking) story:

 

My daughter, Suzy, is the original girlie-girl. When she was in fourth grade she wore dainty dresses (I could not get her to wear jeans.), painted her fingernails, was shy, and spoke (when she spoke at all) in a soft little voice. Boys just loved her -- to pick on that is. They would chase and torment her and she would only make it all worse by running away with shrill screams. Most days she would come home crying. I kept saying: "They can't chase you if you don't run." She simply could not take a stand. She was terrified.

 

One of the school art projects was weaving. Suzy told me she was really enjoying it. One day I got a call from the teacher to come to school because my daughter was having hysterics. I went and calmed Suzy down, which wasn't easy because it was like her heart was broken. It seemed some boys had cut her weaving. The teacher showed me the weaving, extremely tight, tense, obsessive stripes of peach and grey cut right down the middle. I asked the name of the boys. It was Frankie and Joe. Frankie was the janitor's son. What had been done? The boys had been given a talking to. Unfortunately, this did not stop them from tormenting my daughter in days to come. The bullying continued and my complaints were ignored.

 

As fate would have it, I was invited to teach creative writing in the after school program. One day, before class started, I saw Frankie and Joe lingering in the halls. I took an opportunity to speak to them alone. Here is what I said: "I am Suzy's mother. Suzy is a nice little girl and she does not know how to fight back when people pick on her. Lots of parents would wait for the school to make boys like you stop picking on their children. I have decided not to wait. Lots of adults won't hit a child. I am not like that. Lots of adults will not seek revenge toward a child, but I protect my own. If you ever bother my daughter again, I will hurt both of you and I will hurt you bad. Now go ahead tell an adult what I said to you. I am a polite, well-dressed, middle-aged woman. They would never believe you. Look at me. I am smiling at you now."

 

Frankie's dad was sweeping floors one hall over. I could see him going back and forth with a big push broom. I never raised my voice. To this day, I don't know if I meant what I said or not. Let's just say I was convincing, even to me. Neither Frankie nor Joe nor any other boy at that school ever picked on my daughter again. The sustained fury I felt over what they had done paid off.

 

Ordinarily, I am not at all violent. I never even spanked my own child, let alone hit anyone else's.

 

I don't think there is any one strategy that works with bullies. But I do know that doing nothing doesn't work.

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I don't think there is any one strategy that works with bullies. But I do know that doing nothing doesn't work.

 

I agree 100%! I did nothing for so long and it only got worse. I told teachers about what was going on, and the people who picked on me just become sneakier or waited until the busride home. The fight I got into was the only fight I have ever been involved in during my entire life. (I'm almost 25 years old now). I am not a strong individual, nor have I ever been. I've always been the kid who feared gym class because I could never do a pushup or a pull-up, or anything that required strength. I was a weakling. That's also why I was probably picked on so much. Because bullies figured that I wouldn't fight back, or if I did they could beat the crap out of me. I was completely shocked when I took on those two brats with relatively little damage done to me. I think it shocked every one else as well. The only way I was able to do that was because of complete emotion. Four or five years of rage had built up inside of me and I just let it loose. It's kind of scary looking back on that. I think that's another reason why you can't just bottle it up and hope it will pass. There are many ways to 'take a stand' against bullies. Psychological methods work just as well as physical. However, if you just rely on physical (like I did), you could really wind up hurting someone. (I hate to think what I could have done if I was a stronger person or didn't have some sense of sanity left in me).

 

But I do agree that whomever said 'Ignore them and they'll go away' obviously never dealt with any bullies in their life.

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Doing the unexpected might work. For bullies that want you to get mad and perhaps even fight, stay calm, talk as if you're a diplomat trying to promote peace, help them on tests in exchange for no more bullying, etc. For bullies that expect you to cower or run away, fight physically and verbally, become possessed by Genghis Khan himself, pretend they are untrained dogs and loudly give terse commands like, "STOP!", etc.. For bullies that are shy around authority figures, talk to their parents, principal, counselor, or get an adult ally. For bullies that single you out, hang out with some friends more often and avoid them. Bullies that follow the crowd could be dealt with something verbal that hurts their ego for following the crowd.

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I was bullied a lot in my younger years, but I only recently let go of my anger towards those older guys and realized "I am bigger than they are now, I can beat them up", but I also looked at the nature of bullies objectively. Bullies are insecure people. Insecure, maybe a little afraid, but mostly insecure. The need to feel dominant or superior to anyone motivates them. Bullys are commonly associated with younger kids like Nelson Muntz clones, but I think some people never grow out of bullying. I have seen grown men on many occasions act like a-holes, maybe in more sublt ways, but the motivation is the same.

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