gib65 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 From what I understand, space and time can curve, warp, stretch, and maybe even fuse and fission. Can space and time also scale? Can a volume of space grow or shrink? If so, then can a geometric point in space grow to the size of a super-massive black hole? This is what I think *might* be happening with black holes. When a star becomes massive enough to form a black hole, its center of mass not only becomes a new event horizon but the space within it inflates. In inflates in such a way that there is literally nothing inside it. This might explain a few of the paradoxes surrounding black holes. From the point of view of someone far away from the black hole, it takes an eternity for anything to reach the event horizon. It is often wondered what happens to someone once they fall through the event horizon, what things look like from their perspective. But if the black hole is really just a geometric point blown up to the size of a massive star, then there is nothing inside the black hole. There is no space smaller than a geometric point. The event horizon, therefore, represents the end of space. It takes an eternity for someone falling towards the black hole to reach the event horizon because it takes an eternity to reach the end of space. Not sure what this implies about the point of view of the one falling towards the black hole. Maybe space deflates the closer you get (or the faster you approach?) the event horizon such that when you actually reach it, it returns to being the size of a standard geometric point--or maybe the black hole flattens along the axis on which the person is falling. In any case, what happens to someone once they reach the event horizon is that they "land"--that is, they reach the centers of the black hole which, once again, coincides with the event horizon--and there they stay frozen in time (presumably dead). Does anyone here think there are any merits to this theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

ajb Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) From what I understand, space and time can curve, warp, stretch, and maybe even fuse and fission. Space-time is generally curved. I don't know what you mean by fuse or fission; this sounds like a topological change which is not the domain of classical general relativity. Can space and time also scale? Can a volume of space grow or shrink? You can have 3-spaces in 4-d that grow or shrink in volume with time. A great example of this are the FRW-cosmologies. If so, then can a geometric point in space grow to the size of a super-massive black hole? Just locally you can set up a foliation as [math]M = \Sigma\times R[/math], where [math]\Sigma[/math] is a 3 dimensional manifold. You generally won't have any canonical way to this, but you should be aware of the notion of globally hyperbolic space-times. Anyway, a point on [math]\Sigma[/math] for a specified "time" is just that, a point. From a four dimensional point of view you have a line that is parametrised by "time". (Locally anyway) Edited September 1, 2012 by ajb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

IM Egdall Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) s Not sure what this implies about the point of view of the one falling towards the black hole. Maybe space deflates the closer you get (or the faster you approach?) the event horizon such that when you actually reach it, it returns to being the size of a standard geometric point--or maybe the black hole flattens along the axis on which the person is falling. In any case, what happens to someone once they reach the event horizon is that they "land"--that is, they reach the centers of the black hole which, once again, coincides with the event horizon--and there they stay frozen in time (presumably dead). For a non-spinning black hole, there is a single point at its center where all the matter/energy of the collapsed star is. And there is an event horizon, a spherical surface some distance from the center. So the center of the black hole does not coincide with its event horizon. A person falling into a black hole is in free-fall. From his perspective, he is at rest and the event horizon is coming up towards him. There is no special feeling when he crosses this event horizon. To him, he is not frozen in time. As he approaches the center of the black hole, his body is stretched vertically and squeezed horizontally by the intense gravity, and he does not survive to experience the very center. At least this is the theory, as no one has fallen into a black hole. And even if someone did, he could not communicate the experience to those of us outside the event horizon. See link: http://casa.colorado...ajsh/schw.shtml Edited September 1, 2012 by IM Egdall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

dr. undefined Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 This might explain a few of the paradoxes surrounding black holes. From the point of view of someone far away from the black hole, it takes an eternity for anything to reach the event horizon. It is often wondered what happens to someone once they fall through the event horizon, what things look like from their perspective. But if the black hole is really just a geometric point blown up to the size of a massive star, then there is nothing inside the black hole. There is no space smaller than a geometric point. The event horizon, therefore, represents the end of space. It takes an eternity for someone falling towards the black hole to reach the event horizon because it takes an eternity to reach the end of space. There is something smaller than a point. We got Singularity. Event horizon depends on the strength of their respective gravitational fields. Just can't consider an infinitely large field. As in same case as a electric field. A charge which is considered to be a point doesn't have an infinitely large field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

gib65 Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) Just locally you can set up a foliation as [math]M = \Sigma\times R[/math], where [math]\Sigma[/math] is a 3 dimensional manifold. You generally won't have any canonical way to this, but you should be aware of the notion of globally hyperbolic space-times. Anyway, a point on [math]\Sigma[/math] for a specified "time" is just that, a point. From a four dimensional point of view you have a line that is parametrised by "time". (Locally anyway) I'm not sure what that means. A point can't grow as a function of time? There is something smaller than a point. We got Singularity. A singularity is smaller than a point? Edited September 4, 2012 by gib65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

ajb Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I'm not sure what that means. A point can't grow as a function of time? You can blow up a region, but I can't see how a point could blow up; it has to remain a point. This is different to the Big Bang singularity, which we have to cut out of our space-time to keep the manifold structure. At the singularity space and time can't be the same as our classical notions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

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