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Steady state theory


David Levy
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By verifying the shifting direction of stars in an active galaxy we should know if the galactic center generates new matter.

 

As an example - Wikipedia: "The Sun lies between 25,000 and 28,000 light years from the GalacticCentre".

 

What is the expectation for its location in about one billion year from now?

 

This info is needed to verify if the sun is shifting inwards or outwards.

 

Hence, if the sun and all the stars in the spiral arms are shifting outwards, then, there must be a mechanism for new matter creation in the

galactic center.

 

Therefore, the steady state theory should be correct.

 

How can we measure the shifting direction of the stars in an active galaxy???

Edited by David Levy
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Hence, if the sun and all the stars in the spiral arms are shifting outwards, then, there must be a mechanism for new matter creation in the

galactic center.

 

 

So this hypothetical new matter, (is it hydrogen, or just protons?) generates a repulsive force?

 

Or is it your idea that the 'new matter' crowds things and pushes them outward? :rolleyes:

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Tough.

 

You haven't answered the question.

 

How does your hypothetical matter generation effect the stars in the spiral arms, 26,000 lys away.

 

You are postulating that matter appears, so your hypothesis should include a mechanism to produce the effects you're looking for.

 

You see, first you make the prediction and explain why, and then you check it against the observational data. You want the data first, so you can then claim it supports your wild ass guess.

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Then perhaps you should start a blog of your own, where you can pick and choose what questions you want asked.

 

In the meantime, you haven't answered the question.

 

Here's another one.

 

What is the rate of your proposed matter generation?

 

Why is this limited to the galactic center?

 

Perhaps this thread should be in speculations.

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OK David Levy, since you won't answer ACG52's post, let me ask you.

By what mechanism does the generation of matter at the galactic centre affect our sun 26000 lyrs away ??

 

Sorry I couldn't resist.

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In which direction the stars in the spiral arms are shifting? inwards or outwards?

As far as I am aware there is no general tendency for either of these things to occur. What is it that makes you suspect this might be the case? Is it simply that this would possibly provide evidence for the creation of new matter?

 

And... I do not want to get any reply from ACG52!!!

No one is going to take you seriously if you pick and choose whom you will answer. Also, I think you will find that is against the forum rules - you know, the ones you agreed to honour when you joined here.

 

Hence, if the sun and all the stars in the spiral arms are shifting outwards, then, there must be a mechanism for new matter creation in the

galactic center.

Why would creation of new matter in the centre of the galaxy cause stars to move outwards? Surely with increased gravitational attraction they should move inwards? Why are you only considering the stars in the spiral arms? Are you predicting that only these will be influenced? Why are you discounting other factors that might cause migration inward or outward?

 

Thus far there seems to be little logic and less thought invested in your idea. Clear, concise answers to my questions may persuade me otherwise.

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Thank you all.

 

The answer is as follow:

 

Why Big Bang? By Wikipedia

 

"If the distance between galaxy clusters is increasing today, everything must have been closer together in the past".

 

"Fred Hoyle is credited with coining the term Big Bang during a 1949 radio broadcast"

 

"It is popularly reported that Hoyle, who favored an alternative"steady state"cosmological model, intended this to be pejorative"

 

Why Small Bang?

 

If the distance between the stars and the center of an active galaxy is increasing today, everything must have been closer together in the past.

 

So, if the stars are moving outwards from the center of the galaxy, than in the past all the stars musthave been in the center.

 

Therefore, we can assume that there was a small bang in the center which generates the requested mass for the galaxy!!!

 

Why Steady State?

 

If the distance between the stars and the center of an active galaxy is increasing today, everything must have been closer together in the past.

 

If new stars are still coming out from the center, than there must be a mechanism which generate mass in the center.

 

Therefore, the following statement by wikipedia must be correct: "In steady state views, new matter iscontinuously created as the universe expands"

 

 

Hence, we must verify if the stars in the spiral arms of an active galaxy are shifting outwards!!!

 

 

 

With regards to ACG52

 

Please see the following message from staff:

 

#45 3 July 2012 - 04:30 PMimatfaal user_popup.png

 

!Moderator Note

 

ACG52

 

Please stop attacking the person in your posts and concentrate on criticising the argument or on answering questions raised. Implications of personal dishonesty are to be avoided if at all possible.

Edited by David Levy
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Asking question is attacking you?

 

Not hardly.

 

You still haven't answered any of the question put to you.

 

If the distance between the stars and the center of an active galaxy is increasing today, everything must have been closer together in the past.

 

So, if the stars are moving outwards from the center of the galaxy, than in the past all the stars musthave been in the center.

 

Therefore, we can assume that there was a small bang in the center which generates the requested mass for the galaxy!!!

 

 

Well, we have good observations of galaxies in the far past, and they do not support your points. As for 'small bang' generating mass, what exactly do you mean?

 

If new stars are still coming out from the center, than there must be a mechanism which generate mass in the center.

 

But stars are not generated in the center, they form primarily in the spiral arms.

Edited by ACG52
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!

Moderator Note

As per my last mod note, Pymander, this is not the place to push your speculations. We have a forum for that, which you should be well aware of since you already have a thread there. I have removed your comment here on this basis.

Please take some time to review our forum rules and ensure that they are observed when posting here, or staff may be forced to take further action on your account.

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Steady state is not speculation.

 

It is a valid theory.

 

One aspect of this theory is that the GalacticCentre" generate new mass.

 

In this discussion, my advice is very simple:

 

Just by verifying the shifting direction of the stars in an active galaxy, we can get an answer to the steady state theory.

 

You are more than welcome to see the following article:

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/193028?searchUrl=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3DBIG%2Bbang%26acc%3Doff%26wc%3Don&Search=yes&uid=3738240&uid=2134&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=50235900154377

It is stated there: "We conclude that the Big Bang's dominance of contemporary cosmology is not justified by thedegree of experimental support it receives relative to rival theories".

Hence, the steady state theory is as good as the big bangtheory!!!

With regards to the following: "Well, we havegood observations of galaxies in the far past, and they do not support yourpoints".

Can you show or find one active galaxy with spiralarms and disc shape that do not support my point??? (if you have got thepoint..)

It is clear that if the sun is moving at ultra high velocityaround the GalacticCentre" there is achance that it might shift in time inwards or outwards.

 

We all know that the moon is shifting outwards from theearth. only few centimeters per year. Based on that, it was very close to Earthin the past.

 

The big bang theory came out of the following observation:""If the distance between galaxyclusters is increasing today, everything must have been closer together in thepast".

 

Why the science can't verify this supper importantsubject???

 

Edited by David Levy
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Please answer these questions that I asked you earlier. Your illogical response above does not address these.

 

Why would creation of new matter in the centre of the galaxy cause stars to move outwards? Surely with increased gravitational attraction they should move inwards?

 

Why are you only considering the stars in the spiral arms? Are you predicting that only these will be influenced?

 

Why are you discounting other factors that might cause migration inward or outward?

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To Ophiolite

Why would creation of new matter in the centre of the galaxy cause stars to moveoutwards? Surely with increased gravitational attraction they should moveinwards?

 

I didn't say that. The message is that if the stars in an active galaxy are shifting outwards, there must be a mechanism for mass creation in the center of the galaxy.

 

 

Why would creation of new matter in the centre of the galaxy cause stars to move outwards? Are you predicting that only these will be influenced?

 

This is someting which we need to verify.

 

Why are you only considering the stars in the spiral arms? Are you predicting that only these will be influenced?

 

Yes,sure. There is a huge different between a disc shape with spiral arm galaxy to ballshape or elliptical galaxy. In an active galaxy, all the stars are moving inone direction around the core of the galaxy and in almost one platform (Disc shape).also,all the stars at the same distance from the core have the same velocity. Therefore,there is virtually no collision even as the speed of the stars is so high.

Edited by David Levy
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To Ophiolite

Why would creation of new matter in the centre of the galaxy cause stars to moveoutwards? Surely with increased gravitational attraction they should moveinwards?

 

I didn't say that. The message is that if the stars in an active galaxy are shifting outwards, there must be a mechanism for mass creation in the center of the galaxy.

You have not demonstrated that this is the case. You keep asserting it without a) offering a reason why this must be so, or b) explaining why other causes should be discounted. Please do so now.

 

 

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Why are you only considering the stars in the spiral arms? Are you predicting that only these will be influenced?

 

Yes,sure. There is a huge different between a disc shape with spiral arm galaxy to ballshape or elliptical galaxy. In an active galaxy, all the stars are moving inone direction around the core of the galaxy and in almost one platform (Disc shape).also,all the stars at the same distance from the core have the same velocity. Therefore,there is virtually no collision even as the speed of the stars is so high.

No - why are you considering only the stars in the spiral arms of this galaxy. You appear to think that all stars in our galaxy are located within the spiral arms. That does not incline me to believe that you have any idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you just misunderstood me, so why would the stars in our galaxy, not in the spiral arms not be effected?

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To Ophiolite

 

You have not demonstrated that this is the case. You keep asserting it without a)offering a reason why this must be so, or b) explaining why other causes should be discounted. Please do so now.

 

O.K. I hope to be clear this time.

 

As we all know the Idea of the big bang came after the verification that the distance betweengalaxy clusters is increasing. Hence, it is stated in Wikipedia: "If the distance between galaxy clusters is increasing today, everything must have been closer together in the past".

 

In the same token, If the distance between the stars and the center of an active galaxy is increasing today, all the stars must have been closer together in the past.

As new stars are still coming out from the center, thenthere must be a mechanism which generates mass in the center. (Otherwise, the galaxy could be emptyfrom star as they all moved out. But this is not the case.)

No -why are you considering only the stars in the spiral arms of this galaxy. Youappear to think that all stars in our galaxy are located within the spiralarms. That does not incline me to believe that you have any idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you just misunderstood me, so why would the stars in our galaxy, not in the spiral arms not be effected?

 

So let's highlight what is an active galaxy:

 

Supper massive Black hole in the center

 

Disc shape galaxy

 

Spiral arms

 

One orbit direction for all(main) stars per ring.

 

Circular orbit around theGalaxy center.

 

Examples for activegalaxies:

 

Milky way

 

Andromeda

 

Active galaxy is the only place which has the requested energy and power to generate new matter. The GalacticCentre acts as the Mother Nature which generate new matter and new stars.

 

Wikipedia - "The region where the Scutum–Centaurus Armconnects to the bar of the galaxy is rich in star-forming regions". "Thecurrent hypothesis isthat the bar structure acts as a type of stellar nursery,fueling star birthat their centers".

 

 

Never the less, in order justify this statement, we must first verify the shifting direction of the stars.

 

Edited by David Levy
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As new stars are still coming out from the center, thenthere must be a mechanism which generates mass in the center.

 

As I pointed out, and as your wiki article points out, and as you ignored, new stars are not born in the galactic center. Most star nurseries are located in the spiral arms, where the gas concentrations are high.

 

So far, your 'reasoning' appears to be of the type, "If A implies B, then D.

 

This is really just empty speculation, and as such deserves a different thread.

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Also your definition of an active galaxy is not accurate. Active implies that the central black hole is injesting a lot of stellar matter and interstellar gas, has a sizeable accretion disc, and produces polar jets.

The Milky way and Andromeda have centres which are x-ray sources ( that is the method for detecting the massive core black hole ), but certainly not strong enough to indicate that the core is active and injesting stars.

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To:ACG52

 

If you don't agree withthis info, why do you keep asking again and again???

 

Never the less, this time I hope that it will be clear even to you.

 

Let's assume that the stars in the Milky Way are moving outwards and no new matter is comingin from outside the galaxy. Just assume…

 

What is the outcome ofthis assumption?

 

1. The stars are shifting out from the galaxy.

 

2. No new matter is coming in.

 

3. After quite long time, we would expect that the galaxy will be empty of matter and stars.

 

4. But, the galaxy is full ofstars, and there is high activity in the BAR.

 

5. We know that the science verifies new born stars in the aria which connects the BAR to the spiral arms.

 

6. Those new born stars are also shifting outwards.

 

7. So, after a while, as stated, the BAR should be empty of matter and it should disappear.

 

8. But the BAR is still there.And.. It's full of Matter.

 

9. Hence, the core mustgenerate this new matter!!!

 

Therefore; In order to get a solid proof for generating new matter in a disc/spiral arm galaxy, we need to verify ifthe stars are shifting outwards.

 

And,I don't want to get any further reply from you!

 

 

Hi MigL

 

 

 

Only in the folllowing type of galaxies we should see an activity for creation of new matter:

 

 

•Supper massive Black hole in the center

 

•Disc shape galaxy

 

•Spiral arms

 

•One orbit direction for all(main) stars per ring.

 

•Circular orbit around the Galaxy center.

Edited by David Levy
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David Levy, you are not making sense. This should all be moved to speculations.

 

BTW, whydo you oftenomit aspace betweenwords?

 

Oh, now I get it! Those letters (like matter) appeared between words to illustrate your strange idea.

Edited by Airbrush
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To:ACG52

 

If you don't agree withthis info, why do you keep asking again and again???

 

Never the less, this time I hope that it will be clear even to you.

 

Let's assume that the stars in the Milky Way are moving outwards and no new matter is comingin from outside the galaxy. Just assume…

 

What is the outcome ofthis assumption?

 

1. The stars are shifting out from the galaxy.

 

2. No new matter is coming in.

 

3. After quite long time, we would expect that the galaxy will be empty of matter and stars.

 

4. But, the galaxy is full ofstars, and there is high activity in the BAR.

 

5. We know that the science verifies new born stars in the aria which connects the BAR to the spiral arms.

 

6. Those new born stars are also shifting outwards.

 

7. So, after a while, as stated, the BAR should be empty of matter and it should disappear.

 

8. But the BAR is still there.And.. It's full of Matter.

 

9. Hence, the core mustgenerate this new matter!!!

 

Therefore; In order to get a solid proof for generating new matter in a disc/spiral arm galaxy, we need to verify ifthe stars are shifting outwards.

 

And,I don't want to get any further reply from you!

 

 

 

Hi MigL

 

 

 

Only in the folllowing type of galaxies we should see an activity for creation of new matter:

 

 

•Supper massive Black hole in the center

 

•Disc shape galaxy

 

•Spiral arms

 

•One orbit direction for all(main) stars per ring.

 

•Circular orbit around the Galaxy center.

 

Many research have been done about the Galaxy formation and the structure of it.

Galaxy formation is related to the origin of the Solar system.

Do we have a recent paper or a report about that theory?

Edited by alpha2cen
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