Mohammad Shafiq Khan 10 Posted June 12, 2012 x' is a variable. Specifically, Einstein is saying that there is a function x'(x, y, z, t), and it turns out that you can determine x, y, z, and t from x'(x, y, z, t), y, z, and t - so as tau is a function of x, y, z, and t, tau can be determined from x', y, z, and t.------ Swansont Ph.D Physics Please read the article of Albert Einstein 'On the Electrodynamics of Moving bodies' and discuss the discovery by Swansont which even Einstein did not know. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

uncool 227 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) x' is a variable. Specifically, Einstein is saying that there is a function x'(x, y, z, t), and it turns out that you can determine x, y, z, and t from x'(x, y, z, t), y, z, and t - so as tau is a function of x, y, z, and t, tau can be determined from x', y, z, and t.------ Swansont Ph.D Physics Try again. I wrote that. Please read the article of Albert Einstein 'On the Electrodynamics of Moving bodies' and discuss the discovery by Swansont which even Einstein did not know. Err. No. This is exactly what Einstein said: "To any system of values x, y, z, t, which completely defines the place and time of an event in the stationary system, there belongs a system of values [MATH]\xi, \eta, \zeta, \tau[/MATH], determining that event relatively to the system k, and our task is now to find the system of equations connecting these quantities." He's saying that [LATEX]\xi, \eta, \zeta, \tau[/LATEX] are functions of x, y, z, and t. And even if he hadn't said it explicitly, it's obvious. =Uncool- Edited June 12, 2012 by uncool 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

imatfaal 2480 Posted June 12, 2012 ! Moderator Note MohammedFirstly it was member uncool who made that comment - here . You are getting quote attributions wrong in many of your posts - whilst not crucial this shows a lack of respect towards your fellow members; please try and quote accurately. Secondly, you were asked not to keep opening threads merely to make the same point. I will discuss with other staff if we can leave this thread open long enough for you to clarify your argument against the positions taken by members such as DH, uncool, etc. Be aware - merely saying 'read this or that article' (as above) is not acceptable; serious and detailed problems have been highlighted and the rules of this forum mean you owe a thoughtful explanation if you wish to keep the thread alive. DO NOT OPEN ANY MORE THREADS ON THIS SUBJECT 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Mohammad Shafiq Khan 10 Posted June 12, 2012 Try again. I wrote that. Err. No. This is exactly what Einstein said: "To any system of values x, y, z, t, which completely defines the place and time of an event in the stationary system, there belongs a system of values [MATH]\xi, \eta, \zeta, \tau[/MATH], determining that event relatively to the system k, and our task is now to find the system of equations connecting these quantities." He's saying that [LATEX]\xi, \eta, \zeta, \tau[/LATEX] are functions of x, y, z, and t. And even if he hadn't said it explicitly, it's obvious. =Uncool- Einstein has also said this in his article “If we place x'=x-vt, it is clear that a point at rest in the system k must have a system of values x', y, z, independent of time. We first define (tau) as a function of x', y, z, and t.” Why cannot you see the trick in these two sentences. The values of x',y,z should be independent of time (tau) as per first sentence then how come tau becomes the function of x',y,z in the second sentence.So simple a trickery. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

D H 1371 Posted June 12, 2012 Einstein has also said this in his article “If we place x'=x-vt, it is clear that a point at rest in the system k must have a system of values x', y, z, independent of time. We first define (tau) as a function of x', y, z, and t.” Why cannot you see the trick in these two sentences. The values of x',y,z should be independent of time (tau) as per first sentence then how come tau becomes the function of x',y,z in the second sentence.So simple a trickery. There's no trick. There's only you intentionally misreading. A point with fixed coordinates in the moving system will have time varying coordinates in the stationary system, and vice versa. If you don't like Einstein's original presentation as translated into English, you can find plenty of other derivations of the Lorentz transformation that don't invoke Einstein's original terminology. Just pick up any text for the typical upper undergraduate classical mechanics course or for the typical upper undergraduate E&M course. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Mohammad Shafiq Khan 10 Posted June 12, 2012 There's no trick. There's only you intentionally misreading. A point with fixed coordinates in the moving system will have time varying coordinates in the stationary system, and vice versa. If you don't like Einstein's original presentation as translated into English, you can find plenty of other derivations of the Lorentz transformation that don't invoke Einstein's original terminology. Just pick up any text for the typical upper undergraduate classical mechanics course or for the typical upper undergraduate E&M course. Kindly refer the article of Einstein and my two sentences and please try to atleast think like a schoolboy; that if we say that tau is a function of x' then also x'=f(tau) but in the moving coordinate system x' is always at constant distance from the origin of the moving cordinate system k. That is how Einstein had introduced the moving coordinate system k ad point x'. Hence x' is constant for all values of tau and as such tau is not a function of x'. That is why partial derivative of tau with respect to x' is zero and that is why this term in the equation of trickery is the root cause of all fallacy of main-stream physics. Instead of making judgements; sit for five minutes and think like a school boy and you will realise the trickeries of Einstein & never under estimate others. -4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

D H 1371 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Hence x' is constant for all values of tau and as such tau is not a function of x'. Baloney. Imagine you are driving down the freeway and pass by a car at constant speed v. Imagine that other car has a pair of fuzzy dice hanging from its rear view mirror. Suppose you and the other car have a car-based coordinate frame with the x-axis pointing in the direction of the car's motion. From your perspective, the x coordinate of that pair of dice varies with time, x'(t)=x(0)-vt. From the perspective of the driver of that other car, the x coordinate of that pair of dice is some time-invariant value ξ. Edited June 12, 2012 by D H 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

swansont 7196 Posted June 12, 2012 Einstein has also said this in his article “If we place x'=x-vt, it is clear that a point at rest in the system k must have a system of values x', y, z, independent of time. We first define (tau) as a function of x', y, z, and t.” Why cannot you see the trick in these two sentences. The values of x',y,z should be independent of time (tau) as per first sentence then how come tau becomes the function of x',y,z in the second sentence.So simple a trickery. No, it's basic math and you're fumbling it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

uncool 227 Posted June 13, 2012 Einstein has also said this in his article “If we place x'=x-vt, it is clear that a point at rest in the system k must have a system of values x', y, z, independent of time.[/QUOTe] This is separate from the next statement. What it's saying is that an object that is traveling at velocity v relative to the original frame must be traveling at velocity 0 relative to the alternate frame. We first define (tau) as a function of x', y, z, and t.” This is a statement in general. Why cannot you see the trick in these two sentences. Because there is none. The values of x',y,z should be independent of time (tau) as per first sentence No, it's not saying that they're always independent. It's saying that x' is a function of x, y, z, and t - and that if we set x' = x - vt, then x', y, and z are independent of time. then how come tau becomes the function of x',y,z in the second sentence.So simple a trickery. There is no trickery. =Uncool- 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

hypervalent_iodine 1339 Posted June 13, 2012 ! Moderator Note This has gone on long enough. Thread closed. Also, Mohammad, I would like to officially welcome you to the banned/suspended users thread. Enjoy your holiday. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites