slickinfinit Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Is our prison system a revolving door of criminals who arent sorry but just did their time and are back out on the street only knowing what they know crime? Education and methods of rehabilitation are in prisons but arent mandatory and most criminals only learn more crime from other criminals being in jail. We put theives with murderers and pedophiles with gangbangers and expect them to have the same experience in jail ? that seems stupid to me and more costly in the long run why not have a jails for specific crimes and focus on a punishment suited for each particular crime. It would be more expensive at first but when u actualy rehabilitate and make a ex-con function and contribute then the cost is well worth it. A jail for theives would be for theives and a jail for multiple offenders would go serve time fore each crime learning why they bolth were wrong and why not to do it again, all in all we need a better prison system ? what do u all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickinfinit Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 Is our prison system a revolving door of criminals who arent sorry but just did their time and are back out on the street only knowing what they know crime? Education and methods of rehabilitation are in prisons but arent mandatory and most criminals only learn more crime from other criminals being in jail. We put theives with murderers and pedophiles with gangbangers and expect them to have the same experience in jail ? that seems stupid to me and more costly in the long run why not have a jails for specific crimes and focus on a punishment suited for each particular crime. It would be more expensive at first but when u actualy rehabilitate and make a ex-con function and contribute then the cost is well worth it. A jail for theives would be for theives and a jail for multiple offenders would go serve time fore each crime learning why they bolth were wrong and why not to do it again, all in all we need a better prison system ? what do u all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_13eoWuLF__ Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 My solution to this problem is to legalize drugs. This would free up space for violent offenders. Plus we could spend that money on Medical care for addicts instead of teaching them how to be better criminals in jails. The war on drugs has brought more drugs. The war on poverty has brought more poverty. The war on terror will bring more terror. It's all about money and whose greedy enough to exploit human being. In the US state prisons are a huge business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_13eoWuLF__ Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 My solution to this problem is to legalize drugs. This would free up space for violent offenders. Plus we could spend that money on Medical care for addicts instead of teaching them how to be better criminals in jails. The war on drugs has brought more drugs. The war on poverty has brought more poverty. The war on terror will bring more terror. It's all about money and whose greedy enough to exploit human being. In the US state prisons are a huge business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verusamore Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 My solution to this problem is to legalize drugs. This would free up space for violent offenders. The war on drugs has also made more people paranoid , therefore more mental disorders . The war on poverty ,well the money to help relieve poverty has been mainly spent on war , The war on terror will bring more terror , which country are you talking about , the Iraqis being terrorised or the Americans . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verusamore Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 My solution to this problem is to legalize drugs. This would free up space for violent offenders. The war on drugs has also made more people paranoid , therefore more mental disorders . The war on poverty ,well the money to help relieve poverty has been mainly spent on war , The war on terror will bring more terror , which country are you talking about , the Iraqis being terrorised or the Americans . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest philbo Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 A quick hello - this is my first post here I do a lot of work in prisons, and there's a lot of good and bad about. To summarize, a good prison can do a lot to reduce recidivism, but a bad one does exactly the sort of thing you're talking about, teaching petty criminals to be "harder" and better at committing the crime. It can also reduce further a prisoner's social conscience, so they care less about the society they're damaging. Good things a prison can do: * Education - especially basic literacy and numeracy for those who don't have them already * Visits, and keeping contact with the outside world: this is my main interaction with prisons, and there are some establishments who spend a lot of time making sure that prison visits are as congenial as possible for visitors, to encourage them to maintain regular contact with whoever they're visiting * Work - a lot of prisons have workshops that produce stuff that can be sold. Nothing bolsters a guy's sense of self-worth in quite the same way. And why should we bother giving an inmate a sense of self-worth? Because without it, he'll be back inside as soon as you can say "release". Bad things a prison can do: * Not crack down hard enough on bullying - it goes on all the time in prisons, but left totally unchecked makes for a very jaded prisoner being released. * Excessive lock-up time, no exercise * Depersonalizing the criminal - I know he (and it's usually a "he") has committed a crime, but treating prisoners like zoo animals means they're more likely to behave as such when they get out. If you want them to behave like civilised human beings on release, you need to treat them like that when they're inside. As an aside, I'm also strongly in favour of legalizing and licensing drugs: if only because of the huge amount of money that would go into the exchequer rather than to the drug barons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest philbo Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 A quick hello - this is my first post here I do a lot of work in prisons, and there's a lot of good and bad about. To summarize, a good prison can do a lot to reduce recidivism, but a bad one does exactly the sort of thing you're talking about, teaching petty criminals to be "harder" and better at committing the crime. It can also reduce further a prisoner's social conscience, so they care less about the society they're damaging. Good things a prison can do: * Education - especially basic literacy and numeracy for those who don't have them already * Visits, and keeping contact with the outside world: this is my main interaction with prisons, and there are some establishments who spend a lot of time making sure that prison visits are as congenial as possible for visitors, to encourage them to maintain regular contact with whoever they're visiting * Work - a lot of prisons have workshops that produce stuff that can be sold. Nothing bolsters a guy's sense of self-worth in quite the same way. And why should we bother giving an inmate a sense of self-worth? Because without it, he'll be back inside as soon as you can say "release". Bad things a prison can do: * Not crack down hard enough on bullying - it goes on all the time in prisons, but left totally unchecked makes for a very jaded prisoner being released. * Excessive lock-up time, no exercise * Depersonalizing the criminal - I know he (and it's usually a "he") has committed a crime, but treating prisoners like zoo animals means they're more likely to behave as such when they get out. If you want them to behave like civilised human beings on release, you need to treat them like that when they're inside. As an aside, I'm also strongly in favour of legalizing and licensing drugs: if only because of the huge amount of money that would go into the exchequer rather than to the drug barons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_13eoWuLF__ Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Yeah good imputs. Philbo I don't use drugs or drink and alot of peopel are suprised that I'm in favor of legalizing them. I think we can solve the drug problem better by taking the money out of criminal hands. As far as the earlier post goes I do belive teh war on Iraq will only cause more death for us and the people in Iraq. I belive terrorism is the price of imperialism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_13eoWuLF__ Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Yeah good imputs. Philbo I don't use drugs or drink and alot of peopel are suprised that I'm in favor of legalizing them. I think we can solve the drug problem better by taking the money out of criminal hands. As far as the earlier post goes I do belive teh war on Iraq will only cause more death for us and the people in Iraq. I belive terrorism is the price of imperialism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickinfinit Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 yea philbo u probly know more than me it sounds like in this area, I think ur right it just is how well a prison is runned but i disagree with putting theives in with sex-offenders and they should use differant methods to rehabilitate differant types of criminals, the 3 strikes law for example a person who steals a BB-Q 3 times and is caught 3 times can be sent to a life sentence in some states. I agree with putting violent 3 time offenders away for life but only criminals who put the public safety at risk should be subject to this punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perennial Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Good point, myself I'm under the impression that the "punishment" aspect is ensured too maliciously whilst rehabilitation is considered a second order priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickinfinit Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 Yea it is a just smart for society to want the percent of people in jail at the least number possible and helping people get their head back in reality is alot harder than putting them in time-out like children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepultallica Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 the primary purpose of jails and prisons is to expedite punishment for criminals. all other reasons for having them must, and do, take a back seat to this primary objective. there can be no other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perennial Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 the primary purpose of jails and prisons is to expedite punishment for criminals. all other reasons for having them must, and do, take a back seat to this primary objective. there can be no other way. I consider it a top priority that the offender were to never commit a crime again, the punishment aspect of it is totally secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadn Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Prisons are too soft, perhaps some real punishment is in line... I consider it a top priority that the offender were to never commit a crime again, the punishment aspect of it is totally secondary. Justice must still be dealt, are we to let rapists and murders simply get off scott free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Justice must still be dealt' date=' are we to let rapists and murders simply get off scott free?[/quote'] Would you write off a persons life because of one mistake? What if someone steals property due to the circumstances they live in, when they return to society the circumstances will still exist and the crime will be committed again. If you don't rehabilitate a murderer, what will stop them committing the same crime on release? Is there not an obligation to protect society by rehabilitating prisoners, not simply delaying the next crime they will commit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perennial Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Justice must still be dealt, are we to let rapists and murders simply get off scott free? That is so not the point. Locking people up and throwing away the key does not work, I think the current US system has done good work in proving that. After the fact there is nothing more to be done that try to make sure it never happens again and help those been in the receiving end to pick up the pieces and continue their lives. It's pretty obvious that the first, nor the second, can not be accomplished by letting anyone get off scott free. Exacting revenge should not have a role in modern judicial system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepultallica Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 I consider it a top priority that the offender were to never commit a crime again, the punishment aspect of it is totally secondary. i also consider it a top prioroty but you cant do away with the punishment. even if a person was legally proven rehabilitated, he must still be punished for crimes commited, even at the expense of rehabilitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepultallica Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Would you write off a persons life because of one mistake? What if someone steals property due to the circumstances they live in, when they return to society the circumstances will still exist and the crime will be committed again. If you don't rehabilitate a murderer, what will stop them committing the same crime on release? Is there not an obligation to protect society by rehabilitating prisoners, not simply delaying the next crime they will commit? i think the obligation to protect society would best be served if the murderer was kept behind bars. i would write off someone's life for one mistake if it were bad enough. however, theft and burglaries do not buy you a life imprisonment unless they are extreme or there is a history. im all for rehabilitation. i would support a release of a criminal pending rehabilitation. if doctors do not believe that a criminal is rehabilitated then he should not be released regardles of sentence. he woulld continue breaking laws as you pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepultallica Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 That is so not the point. Locking people up and throwing away the key does not work, I think the current US system has done good work in proving that. After the fact there is nothing more to be done that try to make sure it never happens again and help those been in the receiving end to pick up the pieces and continue their lives. It's pretty obvious that the first, nor the second, can not be accomplished by letting anyone get off scott free. Exacting revenge should not have a role in modern judicial system. i think that in certain circumstances, locking people up and throwing away the room does work. they cant return to society and continue breaking laws. of course, you wouldnt want to do that with everyone. i also agree that the small-time criminals can be sentenced to minimum security rehabilitation centers as opposed to full blown prisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordie Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 My solution to this problem is to legalize drugs. This would free up space for violent offenders. Plus we could spend that money on Medical care for addicts instead of teaching them how to be better criminals in jails. The war on drugs has brought more drugs. The war on poverty has brought more poverty. The war on terror will bring more terror. It's all about money and whose greedy enough to exploit human being. In the US state prisons are a huge business. I myself think that prison is the answer. But some things need to change with the current U.S. Prison System. For example, notice how immates are allowed to have -Television sets -Radio's -Food (they can even buy more food) and alot of other things. This is giving many the idea, "hey prison isn't that bad!" I think if we took away some of these luxuries we would be putting back the idea, "You don't want to go there." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perennial Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 I myself think that prison is the answer. But some things need to change with the current U.S. Prison System. For example, notice how immates are allowed to have -Television sets -Radio's -Food (they can even buy more food) and alot of other things. This is giving many the idea, "hey prison isn't that bad!" I think if we took away some of these luxuries we would be putting back the idea, "You don't want to go there." If someone actually considered the prison system as being not that bad of a place to hang around, makes you wonder whether we'll ever be able to do much for the problem as long as the gap in standard of living is as large as it is (on a large scale that is, if we consider the majority of crimes etc.). Don't think penalizing more and heavier (if that is even possible ... ok, you can come up with stuff) changes much (and it would be preferable to treat the issue differently than locking up a large percentage of the country's population, there are countries where this actually works & crime figures are low). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepultallica Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 If someone actually considered the prison system as being not that bad of a place to hang around, makes you wonder whether we'll ever be able to do much for the problem as long as the gap in standard of living is as large as it is (on a large scale that is, if we consider the majority of crimes etc.). Don't think penalizing more and heavier (if that is even possible ... ok, you can come up with stuff) changes much (and it would be preferable to treat the issue differently than locking up a large percentage of the country's population, there are countries where this actually works & crime figures are low). im all for making criiminals test subjects for scientific experiments that would further medicine and technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perennial Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 im all for making criiminals test subjects for scientific experiments that would further medicine and technology. I believe this has been tested in many places around the globe and it has not been found to affect crime rates (at least not much more than random government sanctioned executions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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