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I believe in Jesus, but not in God.


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I believe in energy more than I believe in either God or Jesus. Energy is everything in my opinion whether it is psychological, esoteric, spiritual or physical.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_(esotericism)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_(psychological)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitalism

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtle_body

Edited by seriously disabled
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Have you ever paused to think for a moment that most likely the people who wrote the bible were the ones who made it up?

This makes more sense.   "I love my dog he loves me"   Replace "salvation" with "salivation" and you might be on to something, I know that my dog regularly offers me salivation

Indeed, because the OED is the official arbiter of language (not at all an impartial, descriptivist observer), and the fundamental character of theology is necessarily defined by people with no direct

I know that's what you think, but it is not connected with reality. Prayer can sometimes have calming effects, but not really different than any form of meditation or intentional relaxation. Also, intercessory prayer does not have any meaningful impact on health outcomes. There have been studies that show when people know they are being prayed for their health outcomes tend to be worse relative to others in similar situations who did not know people were praying for them.

 

Either way, even if you dismiss or ignore the above, my previously shared link regarding, "Why won't god heal amputees" shows how painfully nonsensical your position truly is. If you think Jesus cures through prayer, then put your money where your mouth is. Cut off your arm, start praying, and see what happens. Will you try this and report back? I understand it may take you longer to type a response with only one arm, but after all... You have faith, and Jesus heals, right? What do you have to lose?

 

 

You are correct. I have spent many years considering the topic of religion and gods existence, and also whether or not Jesus was somehow supernatural or divine. After much reflection, and upon realizing that I greatly value my integrity, intelligence, and honesty, I have chosen to truly become a man and abandon the childish thing which is faith.

 

You are free to believe whatever silly thing you want, but I'm also free to show you where your position is flawed and to offer valid criticisms of your baseless assertions.

Well the first Hydrogen had to come from somewhere - or someone. I don't have any problem with that. God made it, or the being they call God, Allah, Shiva - that's the creator, or so I believe. If I'm wrong will someone correct me, please. Or if you don't believe, where do you think the first Hydrogen came from? Please be clear.

Now, do you think this creation pleased the Perfect One? The Perfect One can only create perfection. When he created God, God was perfect. When God thought he was as good, if not better, than the Perfect One he erred - that's vanity!

And starting a rival Universe by creating Hydrogen (given off in moments of vanity) would not please the Perfect One in his spirit world.

Material leads to materialism, something you could never say of Jesus.

Jesus rejected materialism, the good things of this world - preferring to wait until after he was dead.

We know he loved Mary Magdalene, she was referred to as 'The disciple that Jesus loved,' by the Evangelists. BUt we know what he said to her - 'Don't touch me.'

When Jesus rose on the third day, he would have needed some clothes - obviously. He found a gardeners shack with some overalls in it and wore those.

The first people who would have gone to his tomb the day after the sabbath (Passover) would, could, only have been his mother and lover. They were good friends by now, and it's recorded that Mary Magdalene saw 'the gardener' and rushed up to him, asking where they had taken the body, and she must have grabbed him, because he said to her - 'don't touch me.'

Well that's how she recognised him, the only man who ever told her that (she was very beautiful - probably a blonde from northern Europe, an escaped slave?) anyway they made love then.

It didn't matter then. Nothing mattered. It was a different time in so many senses.

Anyway, that's what I believe.

 

The redefinitions suggested on this page are not extreme, and rather than being obfuscating, they're intended to be clarifying. You will surely accept that dictionaries provide multiple definitions of words, so if we persist with "faith", it is nevertheless important to make vital distinctions, and so we should at least be talking about Faith Type A and Faith Type B.

Well I don't know what you guys are talking about, but this is my thread and I'm allowed to reply so I will.

We Gnostics think Jesus is all you need, and I'd rather not tell you what we think of God - not much. Jesus told the Jews their God was the Devil (John 14, verse 42?) and we Gnostics agree. Satan is a puppet God waves in our faces - you better be good or this is who's gonna get you.

Jesus rejected the World. Religion tells you you're Evil and the World is Beautiful. Gnostics say the World is Evil and you're Beautiful.

Put your faith in Humanity - that"s what Jesus did. People loved him - poor people, anyway. He did miracles and made cures, that's what it says.

I don't know about your Faith Type A and Faith Type B. I only know what I have interpreted from the Bible. Let me know, Poledice.

 

From the Gnostic point of view, faith == ignorance, you either have knowledge of god and know that he exists or you don't have any knowledge of god and do not know he exist. Faith is more of a practical commitment towards god, it doesn't mean we have to completely accept his existence and start believing in him blindly, this is of no use, its darkness, its ignorance. Whether one is willing to show a practical commitment towards god is left to the individual depending on his interpretations on the available data and evidence.

Look, Immortal - there's a story in the Bible where everybody in the world rejected God. Everybody that is except for one man, Noah. Noah was the only person who believed in God. That's what it says in the Bible, anyway.

So God told Noah to build a boat. His neighbours must have thought he was crazy, but then God made it rain and he drownded everyone

in the world - but then Noah, the sole survivor stilll believed in God, so everybody in the world believed in God.

Now, if that's God's way of changing people's minds - I don't think much of it.

What do you call someone who kills everybody in the world except for one person? A megalomaniac, or worse - if I'm correct.

 

I believe in energy more than I believe in either God or Jesus. Energy is everything in my opinion whether it is psychological, esoteric, spiritual or physical.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy

 

https://en.wikipedia...gy_(esotericism)

 

https://en.wikipedia..._(psychological)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitalism

 

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Subtle_body

Jesus loves you, Seriously Disabled - more than the rest. He loves disabled people more than the able-bodied.

 

Hi Immortal

 

I'm afraid that I don't see any disagreement between this professor and the gnostics. I view the professors book as an explanation of gnosticism, or gnosticism as it is once the contingent muddle is cleared away. I feel that Nagarjuna, Radhkrishnan, Shankara, Kapleau, the Dalai Lama, Lao tsu, Chung tsu and all the others of like mind are authoritative on truth, while Elaine Pagels, Stephen Hoeller, Karen Armstrong, Sean Martin and their like are authoritative on gnosticism, but of course it is possible to doubt this and hold a different view.

 

 

How so? Looks like a rational response from here.

It is a rational response.

There is much written on Gnosticism by non- Gnostics, much of it muddled.

We believe Jesus is all you need, and God is the Devil. God is responsible for all the troubles of humanity, but you'll never see this. God is the creator, like Allah and all the rest. They made material worlds. Worlds made of material. The material world is evil - Jesus rejected it and taught us to do the same. Never mind theDalai Lama - that old stuff won't help you in the modern world.

 

Oh yes, when you reject the truth and accept things which only suite your worldview, how can you find disagreements.

 

 

 

 

Contingent Muddle? The pleroma of God and his Aeons are very important for a practicing gnostic, one cannot just clear it away. Why don't you address this rather than acting as though there aren't any disagreements.

 

 

 

 

The pleroma of God of the gnostics is as important as the unity, both should be known. If you accept one and doubt the other your view is incomplete which implies the knowledge that you're trying to gain is going to be incomplete too.

 

And also how can you accept these things and call yourself an atheist, it looks like double standards to me.

We Gnostics reject God in all his forms. We're dualists, you're a 'mono.' You have one God, one life, one wife, one house etc.

But there's two of everything, male and female, hot and cold etc. etc,.

The 'pleroma' of God? I have no idea what that is, and I thought I was Knowledgeable.

 

I said that if you think they say different things then your reaction is rational. What is there to misunderstand in that sentence?

 

 

Yes.

 

 

Ergo you did not read my words carefully.

 

 

 

Fair enough. I would roughly agree. But there are three or four different meanings of 'faith', and they do not all mean believing in any old nonsense.

 

 

What? I can't even think of a reply to this.

 

 

What? I didn't even mention the plemora of God. Most of religion is contingent muddle, and I see no reason that Gnosticism should be exempt.

 

 

Perhaps so. It has no bearing on anything I said.

 

 

Quite easily. But it's a subtle point, and it seems that subtlety is a no no on this forum.

Peter, you're an aetheist, right?

THen where did the first hydrogen come from? It just appeared? What about all the rest? No, it was created, but compared to the spirit world, it was not good.

God erred when he thought he was as good, if not better than the Perect One. In his material Universe, God looks good - if you believe in materialism.

 

That's exactly what my criticism is, you want to do away with god, can you atleast address my critcisms rather than acting innocent.

 

 

 

 

Yes, it does. If one includes the pleroma of God as the fundamental nature of the cosmos then it drastically changes your worldview and hence I said that your worldview is incomplete.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I need to ask you, it appears from here that you positively believe in advaita vedanta which falls under theistic religions and contradicts your claim of being an atheist.

Look, I'm a Gnostic and we know better. God is evil - same as Allah or anyone of those. Jesus is good, maybe he was pertfect.

Anyway, Jesus should be all you need. Jesus rejected the world and its materialism. We should do the same, but we're afraid. Afraid of what? Nature.

Nature brings cold and storms, and other violent weather. We hide from Nature in warm houses we have built.

 

 

 

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Jesus said, 'I am the truth, the light and the way.'

I think God is a part of the old Jewish religion, and does not apply. Jesus never said he was the son of God - others said that about him. Jesus called himself 'The Son of Man,' just to let us know. His prayer, The Our Father that he taught us, is not a prayer to God, but to Our Heavenly Father. [Your a little off the mark here, Jesus said; I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me. Jesus also said if you ask anything in my name I will do it].

[There was a time when everybody in the world turned against God. This is in the bible, I'm not making it up. That's right, everybody in the world turned against God - except for one man, Noah. Now you remember. I thought you would.[Your also off the mark here, the reason Noah and his family were saved is because he and his family were seem as good people at that time, and something else very important was happening in that time period, which you obviously don't know anything about, and that is that Satan and his demons were mating with the woman and having hybrid children that normal humans could not deal with, yes Satan and his demons have the power to be able to turn themselves into humans when they wish and back into spirits when they choose. This very serious situation caused the Almighty to turn his attention to the human race at that time, he had to act so looking through the hearts of normal human beings the Almightly saw at that time that ONLY Noah and his family were good, so Noah was told to build the Ark, which according to scripture was open to anyone who wished to be saved from the flood, but a very significant understanding that a lot of people don't understand was present back then as it is now, and that is your attitute of mind and your heard hearted condition against the Almightly understanding and out look on life for the human race in the longer term. This hard hearted condition stopped all people going into the Ark when it started raining and therefore when the Almighty knew nobody else would enter the Ark he sealed the door closed and all other life on the planet seized to exist. After this event Satan and his demons were told that the original converation about man doing the will of God ONLY when man wants something in return from God was not part of what Satan was now doing, and therefore the Almighty told Satan that if you do such things again the test is over, so if you understand what is being said here the human races characters are being tested by the freedom of your own mind to choose to believe in God or Satan, where Satan has no rules so you can freely think anything you want and be influenced by his ideas.]

Anyway, God killed eveybody in the world except for Noah (and his family.) Then, everybody in the world believed in God. [God removed evil doers and left innocent people to survive]

 

I just think this is not a good way to get people around to your point-of-view. If I killed everybody in the world, what would that make me? A megalo-maniac at least, a crazy for sure. But God gets away scott-free. You really have to wonder - I know I do. [You require better training]

 

I don't believe in a devil, either. He's Organised Religion's puppet, and they wave this puppet in our faces saying, 'whoo, look how scary I am.' They'll tell you the world is Beautiful but you're Evil, and that's why you have a hard time.

As a Gnostic, I'll tell you, 'The world is Evil and you're Beautiful.

 

'Cause that's what we believe. We just have Jesus. The world is corrupt. Everything you don't have in this world - you have in the next, and vice-versa. When you die you come to these Pearly Gates, and everybody's pushing and shoving trying to get thru'. [The road to righteouness is very cramped and narrow, and few are the ones finding it, the dead did not find the road, they are conscious of nothing, the living are conscious they are alive and are also conscious they will die, the bible clearly tells you the dead are conscious of nothing, so where are your friends that have passed away and come back to tell you there is life after death? Jesus clearly stated Lazarus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep, Jesus said to them outspokenly Lazurus has died.]

 

And inside it sounds like there's a heck of a party going on in there. But it's just speakers rigged, and just inside the gates is a cliff edge, but you can't turn around. Me and this kid on crutches get ejected from the crowd (I'm not one for crowds) and we go along the wall 'till we come to a really narrow gate with a guy (or his girlfriend) sitting there and they invite us in. Now I remember - Jesus always said, 'Enter by the narrow gate,' and that's what we do. Except you don't make your choices then - you make them here, in your day to day life. You don't have to have babies, you know. There are already too many people - not enough fish, land, houses...

 

You can't educate people with knowledge that you don't have, you first must have a good understanding of the bible and prove to yourself that it is true, therefore you must choose to find the Almightly first who will reveal himself to the righteous, but gard himself from the undeserving, then you can give a proper understanding of the Almightly and his son rather than trying to get people to believe in the devil and his lies.

 

You need to understand that you still have the chance of everlasting life if you choose the right path in life, but Satan fooling with your imagination has no parole, his number is up and time is now very limted for him and his demons.

 

Auto Engineer :D

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You can't educate people with knowledge that you don't have, you first must have a good understanding of the bible and prove to yourself that it is true, therefore you must choose to find the Almightly first who will reveal himself to the righteous, but gard himself from the undeserving, then you can give a proper understanding of the Almightly and his son rather than trying to get people to believe in the devil and his lies.

 

You need to understand that you still have the chance of everlasting life if you choose the right path in life, but Satan fooling with your imagination has no parole, his number is up and time is now very limted for him and his demons.

 

Auto Engineer :D

 

Auto Engineer, this is not a forum to convert people, proselytizing is not allowed...

 

Is there anyone here who still doubts that this type of thinking is broken?

 

 

I would say shattered but yes you are correct...

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Auto Engineer, this is not a forum to convert people, proselytizing is not allowed...

 

I am not trying to convert anyone from their chosen beliefs, which don't matter to me what anyone choses to believe :) but I think that anyone who choses to degrade a chosen believe by telling others its not true in their own words should at least have a deep enough understanding of the subject to make a sound judgement on it first, then if that person chooses to disbelieve then just say I don't believe it and leave it at that.:)

 

It is also possible that when people write about a chosen religion that by writing as the author above did could give people the impression that they too should disbelieve the written information, therefore should you not have said something along the lines of;

 

Please feel free to read such a section of such a bible and please give me your view point and understanding of it, then you can read between the lines on what a person believes or not :)

 

We must remember that Satan does not want anyone to get to know the true personality of the Almightly, so he will use anything at his disposal to make ends meet. This is not a conversion process but to try to get people to read information themselves then they can make their own informed decisions on what they choose to believe, without being lead.:)

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Auto Engineer, this is not a forum to convert people, proselytizing is not allowed...

 

I am not trying to convert anyone from their chosen beliefs, which don't matter to me what anyone choses to believe :) but I think that anyone who choses to degrade a chosen believe by telling others its not true in their own words should at least have a deep enough understanding of the subject to make a sound judgement on it first, then if that person chooses to disbelieve then just say I don't believe it and leave it at that.:)

 

It is also possible that when people write about a chosen religion that by writing as the author above did could give people the impression that they too should disbelieve the written information, therefore should you not have said something along the lines of;

 

Please feel free to read such a section of such a bible and please give me your view point and understanding of it, then you can read between the lines on what a person believes or not :)

 

We must remember that Satan does not want anyone to get to know the true personality of the Almightly, so he will use anything at his disposal to make ends meet. This is not a conversion process but to try to get people to read information themselves then they can make their own informed decisions on what they choose to believe, without being lead.:)

 

No, you are proselytizing, you are assuming your god is real and then asserting that others are wrong by this assumption. Before you can claim your god is real you have to show some evidence of the existence of a god or gods then you have to show evidence for your personal version of god. You will find many here who have a deep understanding of the idea of gods, and the so called word of gods. I suggest you check out all the threads that already exist here before you start asserting your god or any god is real... You will find that while you are welcome to your beliefs asserting them as facts will result in them being degraded to the simple fairy tales they really are.

 

We must remember that Satan does not want anyone to get to know the true personality of the Almightly, so he will use anything at his disposal to make ends meet. This is not a conversion process but to try to get people to read information themselves then they can make their own informed decisions on what they choose to believe, without being lead.:)

 

This would be a prime example, do you have any evidence that either satan or your god is real? if not them why assert their existence? BTW the Holy Bible is evidence of nothing, it is hearsay at best...

Edited by Moontanman
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No, you are proselytizing, you are assuming your god is real and then asserting that others are wrong by this assumption. Before you can claim your god is real you have to show some evidence of the existence of a god or gods then you have to show evidence for your personal version of god. You will find many here who have a deep understanding of the idea of gods, and the so called word of gods. I suggest you check out all the threads that already exist here before you start asserting your god or any god is real... You will find that while you are welcome to your beliefs asserting them as facts will result in them being degraded to the simple fairy tales they really are.

 

Well in your last thread you said that I was proselyizing and now you say that I am assuming my god is real?

 

I never claimed go is real I said people should be given the opportunity to read for themselves and then make their own mind up. The original thread started by saying belief in god was not real and then justifying it not me. First you claim I was proselyizing and then you say I am not :D

 

 

 

This would be a prime example, do you have any evidence that either satan or your god is real? if not them why assert their existence? BTW the Holy Bible is evidence of nothing, it is hearsay at best...

 

Without faith works is dead, as it is written it is to no avail that man builds his house if the Lord God did not build it himself, because what goes up will come down. The evidence speaks for itself, God created the Earth and he said it will last forever, which science can prove it has lasted billions of years, so based on that God must have told the truth there then.:)

 

As the Almightly truely spoke in the bible, nobody is righteous and man must not put faith in man who will dominate to his own injury, but put faith in the Almightly through his only begotten son Jesus.

 

vengence is mine says the Lord, for the Lord knows the way of the righteous, but the ungodly are not so and will parish, as written in the bible :D

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Moderator Note

Auto Engineer,

Please read this and this.

At SFN, we have rules against soap boxing. In accordance with this, I'm a going to ask you to stop using this thread and this site as your personal podium and to stop preaching your religion.

If you have any questions regarding this mod note, please feel free to alert staff by using the report feature, which may be located next to the yellow triangle at the bottom left of each post.

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Without faith works is dead, as it is written it is to no avail that man builds his house if the Lord God did not build it himself, because what goes up will come down. The evidence speaks for itself, God created the Earth and he said it will last forever, which science can prove it has lasted billions of years, so based on that God must have told the truth there then.:)

 

Well... since the Earth will not exist forever, not even close, i would say that this was said by bronze age people who believed it because the priests told them to...

 

As the Almightly truely spoke in the bible, nobody is righteous and man must not put faith in man who will dominate to his own injury, but put faith in the Almightly through his only begotten son Jesus.

 

Says who? When? Was it even eye witness? No it was not....

 

vengence is mine says the Lord, for the Lord knows the way of the righteous, but the ungodly are not so and will parish, as written in the bible :D

 

 

I say that bad things and good things happen to everyone and that belief in any god much less your god does not confer any particular good or bad on anyone.

Edited by Moontanman
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Moderator Note

Auto Engineer,

 

Please read this and this.

 

At SFN, we have rules against soap boxing. In accordance with this, I'm a going to ask you to stop using this thread and this site as your personal podium and to stop preaching your religion.

 

If you have any questions regarding this mod note, please feel free to alert staff by using the report feature, which may be located next to the yellow triangle at the bottom left of each post.

 

 

 

Thank you I was not aiming to upset anyone in my replies, I was in my own way just defending the bible and its content, which cannot post in defence on the forum without somebody to do it in behalf of the bible.

 

I respect the forum rules and don't wish to operate outide of those rules, but there are two sides to any fence and on this thread it seems everyone disrepects the author of the bible and what it stands for.

 

I'll call it a day on this thread.

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I respect the forum rules and don't wish to operate outide of those rules, but there are two sides to any fence and on this thread it seems everyone disrepects the author of the bible and what it stands for.

You're right. I do disrespect slavery, and the subjegation of women, and the idea that homosexuals should be stoned to death, as well as the countless other arbitrary rules.

 

Also, which author? You realize that it's an anthology, right?

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Not me. Now we have the claim that Adviata Vedanta is theism. It's a hopeless muddle.

 

 

Can you please be more careful and responsible when you make assertions like that. Advaita Vedanta is not theism? Really? You're either trying to twist the doctrines of these traditions to suit your metaphysical theory or you do not know the importance of the concept of Ishvara in Advaita Vedanta. Ishvara is the personal God, so advaita is not the death of gods instead by arguing for this doctrine you're also arguing that this personal God also exist, therefore advaita is theism. I am sorry to say this but I find your position to be extremely ridiculous.

 

 

Ishvara is the Sun God and he originated from a golden egg(metaphorical) and he has his own pantheon or the pleroma of god with Agni, Soma, Prana and other gods and in the Gnostics we have Sophia, demiurge and other aeons, so please stop putting all these different traditions in the same line, there are lots of differences even though philosophically they say the same thing.

 

What have the authors of the bible done to earn my respect?

 

 

It depends on the credibility of the prophets themselves. How can you know whether it was all made up or their works authenticate the existence of God? One can criticize something or someone without showing disrespect to them.

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Likewise, there is no reason one cannot put forth criticisms while being authentic with the disrespect they feel. People should stop demanding respect and start earning it.

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Likewise, there is no reason one cannot put forth criticisms while being authentic with the disrespect they feel. People should stop demanding respect and start earning it.

 

Even if they made it up on their own I should still respect them as individuals, theists are human beings. There is a religious leader who at the age of 106 gets up early in the morning and takes english classes to 5th grade students and climbs the staircase of a three storeys building without taking anyone's support. I would still respect him for his works even if I disagree with his belief in God. Anyways God does not exist is not a fact so there is no reason to show disrespect towards someone for holding a personal belief.

Edited by immortal
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Actually, slight correction. There are LOTS of reasons not to show respect for someone's belief in god(s), nor in their personally preferred fairy tales and works of fiction, but I suppose that's not the point of this thread.

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Also, while I might respect the 106 year old for his determination to teach, that's no reason for me to respect the people who wrote the bible. They were not teaching English to 5th grade students. So, once again: what have the authors done to earn my respect?

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I couldn't say that. I couldn't help but respect the work of... for example... the philosophical and literary work and the author of Ecclesiastes. It is shadowed by Plato and Confucius from the same time in truth and morality, but wins some points back for poetry and eloquence. It got incorporated into an ugly tradition but... even judging it in theological terms, I have to respect that the author realized there was no afterlife and had the number of gods down to one. Very nearly spot on.

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There is an amazing degree of similarity between the pleroma of God with his Aeons of the Gnostic Christians and the pleroma of God with his pantheon of Gods of the Upanishads which is an another ancient Gnosis school of thought. So I'm basically talking about the true God of the Gnostics who is none other than the God of the Upanishads. They both are describing the same pleroma of God and their teachings are identical to each other.

 

 

 

Plotinus was a Neoplatonist, so he came after Plato.

 

 

 

 

You're taking it too literally. Jesus took away all our sins not by dieing at the cross, he took away all our sins because he gave us the Gnosis, perfect knowledge of the Father so that we can live a sinless existence.

 

 

 

 

 

May be he was the son of true God.

 

 

 

If you call yourself Gnostic then stick to the Gnostic interpretation of the Bible, don't make up things on your own and misrepresent their interpretations and teachings. They have their own interpretation of the Old Testament as well as the New testament, they advice us to interpret the bible in a figurative or a metaphorical way having deep hidden psychological and spiritual meanings, it shouldn't be interpreted too literally.

 

This is the reason why most of the bible contradicts with empirical evidence because they have been interpreted too literally, surely Noah's Ark couldn't have happened literally there is a deeper hidden meaning behind the bible. If you think whatever I'm saying is incorrect then check out the links which I gave you and then come back.

I don't need your links, and if you don't beleve in the God of Abraham, then who the heck do you believe in? I think you should say.

 

God is the Devil, and Jesus never claimed to be the Son of God. He called himself the Son of Man, just so you wouldn't make this mistake. God made himself imperfect - that's why the world is imperfect, and why Man is too.

The Perfect One made God and many other spirits and angels - all of them perfect. God commited vanity and became imperfect. Everything God makes is therefore imperfect and must self-destruct.

 

 

 

I think the Bible is a load of Mumbo-Jumbo. The New Testament though, offers much wisdom about rejecting the world. Once Jesus was taken to the top of a mountain and offered everything, if he would bow to the DEvil.

Now, who's world is it, according to Jesus - the Devil's.

 

Who is the Devil - God. God made the world and Jesus would have been taught that same thing. Why therefore does he indicate that the Devil made the World?

 

 

God was made perfect. By entering into 'Materialism' as opposed to 'Spiritualism' God made himself imperfect. THe Perfect One has nothing to do with materialism - anything material will eventually die or self-destruct. The mountains will crumble into the sea etc. etc.

 

You're right about the Bible. It's a load of garbage to me. Material is evil, only the spirit is good. It's important to take care of your spirit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I couldn't say that. I couldn't help but respect the work of... for example... the philosophical and literary work and the author of Ecclesiastes. It is shadowed by Plato and Confucius from the same time in truth and morality, but wins some points back for poetry and eloquence. It got incorporated into an ugly tradition but... even judging it in theological terms, I have to respect that the author realized there was no afterlife and had the number of gods down to one. Very nearly spot on.

Hi Iggy, nice of you to join my thread. Yes, there's only one Perfect One ands only one God. O course, everything the Perfect One makes is perfect. It's all he can do. God isn't perfect, and that's why the world (and man) is the way it is.

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Hi Iggy, nice of you to join my thread. Yes, there's only one Perfect One ands only one God. O course, everything the Perfect One makes is perfect. It's all he can do. God isn't perfect, and that's why the world (and man) is the way it is.

I'm not interested in your preaching. Please stop addressing it toward me.

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I don't need your links, and if you don't beleve in the God of Abraham, then who the heck do you believe in? I think you should say.

 

I believe in myself, I believe only in what I see, the problem you're not seeing is that there are different traditions with their own pantheon of Gods which are much older than Gnosticism, even though these different gnostic traditions say the same thing in phylosophy and psychology they say different things about their mythology. I am interested in the God of the Gods in those traditions or the perfect one(as you call him the Father) in Gnosticism. When youngsters begin to question things about the religions that they were brought up in much of it doesn't make any sense, they seem very unlikely and if the idea of a religion has got any chance of surviving in this 21st century world then a lot depends on how much truth exists in these gnosis traditions. These gnosis traditions say that the pleroma of god exists in each and everyone i.e the perfect one exist in each and everyone of us and to know whether he exists or not is my only hope.

 

God is the Devil, and Jesus never claimed to be the Son of God. He called himself the Son of Man, just so you wouldn't make this mistake. God made himself imperfect - that's why the world is imperfect, and why Man is too.

 

The Perfect One made God and many other spirits and angels - all of them perfect. God commited vanity and became imperfect. Everything God makes is therefore imperfect and must self-destruct.

 

If the perfect one made God and if God went on to make imperfect things then isn't it that it is the perfect one who made imperfect things and that would make him the imperfect one not the perfect one.

 

Your view is a depressing view, this is the Sethian view of Gnosticism but that's not how the Valentinians see it, man is imperfect not because he was created by god man is imperfect because he is ignorant of the true nature of the perfect one and so are other gods and angels. Its not that we are evil, we are just ignorant of the perfect one and its wrong to see the world as evil, the world is very much important in sowing the seed of knowledge in individuals to alleviate them to have gnosis. Therefore the world, the God and man is not evil but just ignorant. If we were evil then we all came from the perfect one and that would make the perfect one imperfect.

 

 

You're right about the Bible. It's a load of garbage to me. Material is evil, only the spirit is good. It's important to take care of your spirit.

 

I never said that the Bible is garbage, that's not what I said. I said it has a deep different hidden meaning behind it and we should stop taking it literally making inferences about this world of empiricism from the bible.

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That's exactly what my criticism is, you want to do away with god, can you atleast address my critcisms rather than acting innocent.

 

 

 

 

Yes, it does. If one includes the pleroma of God as the fundamental nature of the cosmos then it drastically changes your worldview and hence I said that your worldview is incomplete.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I need to ask you, it appears from here that you positively believe in advaita vedanta which falls under theistic religions and contradicts your claim of being an atheist.

I wish you would tell me what you believe in. If you don't believe in the God of Abraham, who do you believe in. If you told me, it would make things a lot easier for me. Thanks, Immortal.
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I wish you would tell me what you believe in. If you don't believe in the God of Abraham, who do you believe in. If you told me, it would make things a lot easier for me. Thanks, Immortal.

 

I believe in the Sun God, the one who emanated from the golden egg - Hiranyagarbha. He is a natural god not a sky god and I believe in him because I comprehend a lot about his mythology and studied it quite well. But I don't always defend him in my arguments. Sometimes I argue for the whole of religious thinking and sometimes I argue in favor of my personal beliefs.

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