Volcanic Eruptions Cause Global Cooling: Man Made Pollution Has a Very Small Effect

[overtone]

 

 

Given our paucity of data for 'small' submarine volcanoes -notwithstanding that they don't introduce aerosols directly into the atmosphere- it seems reasonable there are other discrepancies in the models yet to be corrected.

I'm sure enough that all current models will have to be corrected by new data, to bet good money on that.

 

I'm not sure what the argument is about, though. The chances are that some of the corrections will be bad news, some good, and we hope to be very, very, lucky - since if we do not catch a currently invisible break here, an extraordinary bit of luck as yet invisible, the current trends and situations and known factors point to great suffering and widespread disaster among the planetary human population.

[imatfaal]

OK - can we move on from the procedural issues concerning peer-review? It seems that we are talking at cross-purposes; I don't think anyone here would deny that peer-review is a necessary step towards academic acceptance but also that peer-review is not sufficient and that confirmation and further investigation is always warranted.

 

An academic paper has been introduced - perhaps we could stick to the potential new questions that the paper raises?

 

I think we also need to make clear what questions the paper itself addresses and discuss how that affects the OP of the thread.

[magnocrat]

I know politics is out but like everything this has a political ring.

Steven Pinker proved in 'The Blank Slate ' we carry a huge evolutionary baggage.

I think hard-wired into that is live now pay later when what we need is pay now and live later. Our clever scientists have more or less proved global warming and our involvement. What they are powerless to do is alter who we are.

My evidence: just take a good look at the world.

[Harold Squared]

There are any number of ways to attack the nonexistent crisis of AGW. The principal policies pushed by the IPCC involve limiting production of electrical energy and hence industrial production, aka wealth, rather than advancing to a fusion based economy for example.

 

The entire "climate change" issue is political in nature given that the natural behavior for all of terrestrial history is changing climate one way or another, quite independent of human behavior. It is silly to choose an arbitrary set of values for the planet by fiat of the political elite.

 

King Canute understood this, would that modern kingmakers did as well.

 

Assume that at tremendous cost CO2 production is halted altogether. Will the bleeding climate change? It always has before, colleagues.

[John Cuthber]

There are any number of ways to attack the nonexistent crisis of AGW.

 

 

Then why resurrect a thread to use a strawman to do it in the wrong forum.

Don't answer that; it''s rhetorical.

 

Trashing the earth creates poverty for most people and wealth for a few however, if you want to discuss that, please choose the right forum.

[Harold Squared]

Poverty for most people and wealth for a few is the status quo. These wealthy few are disproportionately represented in the IPCC.

 

Chew on that and make of it what you will.

 

Volcanic eruptions and similar phenomena will continue to affect the climate regardless of any artificially set level of trace gases in the terrestrial atmosphere. No rhetorical question or question at all about it. If you are no straw man, colleague, you will have the grace to concede as much.

[John Cuthber]

It's a straw man because there was never any doubt that volcanoes and such produce CO2.

I don't have to "concede" it because nobody said otherwise did they?

 

And it may be the status quo; that's no reason to make it worse.

 

the important fact is that we are adding more CO2 than the volcanoes.

(image from here)
https://www.skepticalscience.com/volcanoes-and-global-warming-intermediate.htm

Edited June 7, 2015 by John Cuthber

[Strange]

Poverty for most people and wealth for a few is the status quo. These wealthy few are disproportionately represented in the IPCC.

 

And yet, many of the actions that the wealthier countries want to take have been blocked because the poorer nations don't want it to unfairly penalise them.

[pavelcherepan]

 

And yet, many of the actions that the wealthier countries want to take have been blocked because the poorer nations don't want it to unfairly penalise them.

Like what?

[Harold Squared]

 

And yet, many of the actions that the wealthier countries want to take have been blocked because the poorer nations don't want it to unfairly penalise them.

I suppose the White Man's Burden is as heavy as ever. Bloody ungrateful wogs and all, wot?

 

Returning to the topic, the year 1816 affected nations the world around with no regard for socioeconomic distinctions. It is thought to be a consequence of volcanic activity.

[John Cuthber]

I suppose the White Man's Burden is as heavy as ever. Bloody ungrateful wogs and all, wot?

 

Returning to the topic, the year 1816 affected nations the world around with no regard for socioeconomic distinctions. It is thought to be a consequence of volcanic activity.

While you \re changing the language in that, you might as well explain what happened in 1816.

[Strange]

I suppose the White Man's Burden is as heavy as ever. Bloody ungrateful wogs and all, wot?

 

I don't know what the relevance of that is. Presumably just being offensive for the sake of it. ("Look mummy, I said a bad word." snigger)

 

 

Returning to the topic, the year 1816 affected nations the world around with no regard for socioeconomic distinctions. It is thought to be a consequence of volcanic activity.

 

So you think one single extreme example of the effects of a volcano changes the overall fact that they are not comparable to rising CO2 levels? (apart from anything else, volcanic activity has not changed significantly over the past several centuries - or even millennia).

While you \re changing the language in that, you might as well explain what happened in 1816.

 

Mount Tambora. One of several examples of large volcanoes having a global (but temporary) effect.

[John Cuthber]

 

Mount Tambora. One of several examples of large volcanoes having a global (but temporary) effect.

Thanks, my guess would have been Krakatoa but the principle is the same.

Every now and then a big volcano chucks a lot of dust into the earth's atmosphere and it gets chilly for a year or two until the rain washes the dust out.

Then the weather settles back down.

None of that makes any difference to the fact that anthropogenic CO2 is warming the air.

 

Can anyone see why Harold thought it was relevant?

[Strange]

Can anyone see why Harold thought it was relevant?

 

Because it has the word "cooling" in it? Therefore it must prove climate change wrong.

[StringJunky]

 

Because it has the word "cooling" in it? Therefore it must prove climate change wrong.

Like I replied to him earlier somewhere: "Weather is not climate". S'pose I'll have to clarify what I meant.

Edited June 17, 2015 by StringJunky

[TJ McCaustland]

Inconceivable!

Someone watch the princess bride lately? And to keep it on topic I believe it's both volcanoes and manmade pollutants.

Edited July 1, 2015 by TJ McCaustland

[swansont]

Someone watch the princess bride lately? And to keep it on topic I believe it's both volcanoes and manmade pollutants.

 

Lately? That quote was from 3.5 years ago.

[TJ McCaustland]

 

Lately? That quote was from 3.5 years ago.

Wow, didn't look at the time.......

[Harold Squared]

 

Because it has the word "cooling" in it? Therefore it must prove climate change wrong.

Actually it was volcanic in origin and the topic was(is) volcanic effects upon climate. Climate, like weather, is changing all the time. Your post is completely indefensible. Get your stuff together, man.

[Strange]

Actually it was volcanic in origin and the topic was(is) volcanic effects upon climate.

 

Do you have any evidence that volcanoes have any effect on climate (apart from, possibly, a few early episodes such as the creation of the Deccan Traps)?

 

Climate, like weather, is changing all the time.

 

So?

 

Your post is completely indefensible.

 

My irony meter just broke.

[Robittybob1]

 

Do you have any evidence that volcanoes have any effect on climate (apart from, possibly, a few early episodes such as the creation of the Deccan Traps)?

 

 

 

Do you seriously doubt it?

[Strange]

Do you seriously doubt it?

 

Doubt what?

 

That once upon a time in the distant past, massive, continent-wide volcanic activities could have changed the climate and caused mass extinction events? No, not really.

 

That volcanoes are relevant to climate change today? Yes, very much.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Strange

[Harold Squared]

 

Do you have any evidence that volcanoes have any effect on climate (apart from, possibly, a few early episodes such as the creation of the Deccan Traps)?

 

 

So?

 

 

My irony meter just broke.

Cute. I am making a conscious effort to address the topic in all posts, so I will simply affirm that yes, volcanic activity has been shown to affect meteorological patterns to various degrees and on an apparently random basis. A severe enough such event, or series of them, may be enough to counteract the effects of AGW to date, particularly as the rate of temperature increase for whatever reason has slackened in recent years. Edited July 3, 2015 by Harold Squared

[Strange]

Cute. I am making a conscious effort to address the topic in all posts, so I will simply affirm that yes, volcanic activity has been shown to affect meteorological patterns to various degrees and on an apparently random basis.

 

So no (current) effect on climate then.

 

A severe enough such event, or series of them, may be enough to counteract the effects of AGW to date, particularly as the rate of temperature increase for whatever reason has slackened in recent years.

 

And how would the unchanging rate of volcanic activity counter the increasing levels of CO2?

[Harold Squared]

 

So no (current) effect on climate then.

 

 

And how would the unchanging rate of volcanic activity counter the increasing levels of CO2?

Nothing current since Mount Pinatubo and the early 1990's. Of course, that could change tomorrow, the volcanic activity tends to be predictably unpredictable.

 

By all means look it up, it would do you good, something of a triumph for Hansen and his models.