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Ok, I'll tell the story...

 

 

 

Thanks - so many NDEs seem to have an ulterior religious motive to the relation, so it was interesting to read one from a non-proselytising perspective

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Trying to equate a skeptical outlook on exclusive, unfalisifable claims of an absolute diety with a disbelief in unlikely events and then equating that strawman argument with a lack of innovative abil

I don't know. I'm just guessing.

Who knows, an earthquake, maybe it exploded, and it is now a giant rock. Who knows? "Given the difficulties humanity faced getting to the top of Everest, how did biblical era men climb it? How did th

Okay then, all you atheists, tell us your experience that was most likely to make you become a Christian, and then tell us what experience made you mostly turn to athism.

We'll see how they compare…

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Okay then, all you atheists, tell us your experience that was most likely to make you become a Christian, and then tell us what experience made you mostly turn to athism.

We'll see how they compare…

That is easy for me. I became a Christian because my parents had me baptized, took me to church, sent me to Catholic school, and told who and what God was.

 

The experience that made me turn to atheism was also the fact that I went to school where I learned about science, how to think logically, and to question what I am told.

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Okay then, all you atheists, tell us your experience that was most likely to make you become a Christian, and then tell us what experience made you mostly turn to athism.

We'll see how they compare…

 

 

I was raised as fundamentalist Christian, I really had no other choice. Reading the bible cover to cover several times (as opposed to reading in tiny bits picked out by the pastor) convinced me that if it was real then God was a psychopath and the actual nonsense passed off as reality just made it impossible to believe. The lack of any evidence what so ever to support anything supernatural pretty much spelled the death of all other god concepts as well... But the neo-pagans are pretty cool, naked ceremonies and all that sort... but in the end I came to realize there are no gods...

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That is easy for me. I became a Christian because my parents had me baptized, took me to church, sent me to Catholic school, and told who and what God was.

 

The experience that made me turn to atheism was also the fact that I went to school where I learned about science, how to think logically, and to question what I am told.

So basically, you were raised in a world of good. You had to face the real evil of the world, and you became like them...however I never went to that real evil world(Christian school) -- yet, perhaps -- and maybe that is why I have not turned evil. You atheists really worry me about the net generation, because you were raised in good, and you turned bad. So if almost all the Christians turned bad, then almost everyone would be atheists, and that would be bad.

 

 

Now, yeah, you went to Catholic school, and that I've heard is not much different from the normal school -- from the looks of it, not many of the kids at that school were Christians -- so that must have been pretty evil.

I'm not sure if this is the topic that had that list of countries that said if then were religious, but that probably was wrong. I found a book that said that Christianity is more popular than anything else in the world. Agnostics were next, and atheists were 8th.

 

Ok, I'll tell the story...

Great story. Can I put that in my signature?

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I was raised as fundamentalist Christian, I really had no other choice. Reading the bible cover to cover several times (as opposed to reading in tiny bits picked out by the pastor) convinced me that if it was real then God was a psychopath and the actual nonsense passed off as reality just made it impossible to believe. The lack of any evidence what so ever to support anything supernatural pretty much spelled the death of all other god concepts as well... But the neo-pagans are pretty cool, naked ceremonies and all that sort... but in the end I came to realize there are no gods...

I cannot believe that after your experience with boat didn't change your mind. Well, if that can change your mind, the only thing that will is when you go to hell. The problem -- once you're there -- you're there, there's not going back.

 

Listen. Go back, and think about it. Think about how you survived, how that voice came, think about it...

 

 

 

The whole thing. Take a ball and see if you can see one side from the other.

 

"The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth"-Daniel 4:11

 

"And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."-Isaiah 11:12

The one before, all the kingdoms of the world were there, people were not very far, so with the amount of area on a globe that they took up, I can see all that area. Maybe the Devil gave a power to show Him very far. I also remember a verse that said that the earth is round in Isiah, I'll go find it.

 

Number 2. The end of all the earth? Again, they had no idea how big the earth was, because they occupied only a small part of it. The end of the all the earth? Where was it? Perhaps He is talking about the farthest part of where people were, because that was the world for them, and if a tree grew all the way to heaven, some could see everyone at that height.

 

Number 3. Remember, the Bible was translated. Perhaps the translator didn't know English to what we know, and thought it could be any area, or he didn't know Hebrew as well as normal, and thought that whatever he thought earth was was actually what meant an nation, or something. There was four corners of Israel.

 

You really shouldn't put verses like that, it is against the law. The NIV Bible is copyright, and you have to put NIV and the end of each passage if you don't have permission.

 

 

 

 

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The one before, all the kingdoms of the world were there, people were not very far, so with the amount of area on a globe that they took up, I can see all that area. Maybe the Devil gave a power to show Him very far.

So, you're not familiar with a globe? Pick up a globe, put a pin in Palestine, and use a string to see if you can form a line of sight to the east coast of China.
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So basically, you were raised in a world of good. You had to face the real evil of the world, and you became like them...however I never went to that real evil world(Christian school) -- yet, perhaps -- and maybe that is why I have not turned evil. You atheists really worry me about the net generation, because you were raised in good, and you turned bad. So if almost all the Christians turned bad, then almost everyone would be atheists, and that would be bad.

 

 

Now, yeah, you went to Catholic school, and that I've heard is not much different from the normal school -- from the looks of it, not many of the kids at that school were Christians -- so that must have been pretty evil.

I'm not sure if this is the topic that had that list of countries that said if then were religious, but that probably was wrong. I found a book that said that Christianity is more popular than anything else in the world. Agnostics were next, and atheists were 8th.

 

No true Scotsman?

 

Great story. Can I put that in my signature?

 

No

 

I cannot believe that after your experience with boat didn't change your mind. Well, if that can change your mind, the only thing that will is when you go to hell. The problem -- once you're there -- you're there, there's not going back.

 

Listen. Go back, and think about it. Think about how you survived, how that voice came, think about it...

 

I've also seen a UFO, I've seen a couple of ghosts and heard voices many times, your assertion makes no sense, i survived because i am a trained open water scuba diver, the mammalian diving response and determination, god had nothing to do with it, if it had been god why didn't he prevent the accident to begin with? If there is a hell then god is not only a psychopath he is demonstrably unjust, the same punishment for all crimes is totally unjust....

 

 

The one before, all the kingdoms of the world were there, people were not very far, so with the amount of area on a globe that they took up, I can see all that area. Maybe the Devil gave a power to show Him very far. I also remember a verse that said that the earth is round in Isiah, I'll go find it.

 

Number 2. The end of all the earth? Again, they had no idea how big the earth was, because they occupied only a small part of it. The end of the all the earth? Where was it? Perhaps He is talking about the farthest part of where people were, because that was the world for them, and if a tree grew all the way to heaven, some could see everyone at that height.

 

Number 3. Remember, the Bible was translated. Perhaps the translator didn't know English to what we know, and thought it could be any area, or he didn't know Hebrew as well as normal, and thought that whatever he thought earth was was actually what meant an nation, or something. There was four corners of Israel.

 

You seriously need to actually read the bible dude....

 

You really shouldn't put verses like that, it is against the law. The NIV Bible is copyright, and you have to put NIV and the end of each passage if you don't have permission.

 

Horse Feathers, what a cop out....

Edited by Moontanman
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You really shouldn't put verses like that, it is against the law. The NIV Bible is copyright, and you have to put NIV and the end of each passage if you don't have permission.

By the way this is false. This is the proper way to cite them according to every writing standard. Also, my quotes are KJV which has no copyright. Care to try again?

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So basically, you were raised in a world of good. You had to face the real evil of the world, and you became like them...however I never went to that real evil world(Christian school) -- yet, perhaps -- and maybe that is why I have not turned evil. You atheists really worry me about the net generation, because you were raised in good, and you turned bad. So if almost all the Christians turned bad, then almost everyone would be atheists, and that would be bad.

 

 

Now, yeah, you went to Catholic school, and that I've heard is not much different from the normal school -- from the looks of it, not many of the kids at that school were Christians -- so that must have been pretty evil.

I'm not sure if this is the topic that had that list of countries that said if then were religious, but that probably was wrong. I found a book that said that Christianity is more popular than anything else in the world. Agnostics were next, and atheists were 8th.

Wait, why am I evil? Are you saying I turned evil when I was a 10 year old in grade school? How do you know I was raised in good? What do you know about me or my family? And how do you know not many of the kids at my school were Christians? And most importantly, who are you to judge me?

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Wait, why am I evil? Are you saying I turned evil when I was a 10 year old in grade school? How do you know I was raised in good? What do you know about me or my family? And how do you know not many of the kids at my school were Christians? And most importantly, who are you to judge me?

 

 

No true Scotsman dude, he is the embodiment of that fallacy...

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By the way this is false. This is the proper way to cite them according to every writing standard. Also, my quotes are KJV which has no copyright. Care to try again?

Oh, sorry, I thought it was NIV.

 

So, you're not familiar with a globe? Pick up a globe, put a pin in Palestine, and use a string to see if you can form a line of sight to the east coast of China.

That I would succeed. Here's the deal.

Take a globe. You can see half of the globe. Turn it 180°, you can see the other half. At that time they occupied less than half the world. Turn it so that mountain would be facing the middle of your face. Move it closer to you, until you can't see the east of China. Certainly you can have a mountain that high.

Edited by njaohnt
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So basically, you were raised in a world of good. You had to face the real evil of the world, and you became like them...You atheists really worry me about the net generation, because you were raised in good, and you turned bad.

 

The absurdity, idiocy and hypocrisy defining the "goodness" or badness" of people based upon whether they share your personal system of religious belief is almost beyond comprehension.

 

Number 3. Remember, the Bible was translated. Perhaps the translator didn't know English to what we know, and thought it could be any area, or he didn't know Hebrew as well as normal, and thought that whatever he thought earth was was actually what meant an nation, or something. There was four corners of Israel.

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If this excuse is valid, it justifies dismissing the text in its entirety.

 

Certainly you can have a mountain that high.

 

Well there's certainly not one now - http://possiblywrong.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/is-the-earth-like-a-billiard-ball-or-not/

 

So, where was it? Where did it go? What removed it? Given the difficulties humanity faced getting to the top of Everest, how did biblical era men climb it? How did they see so far in an atmosphere containing water vapor?

Edited by Arete
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So, where was it? Where did it go? What removed it? Given the difficulties humanity faced getting to the top of Everest, how did biblical era men climb it? How did they see so far in an atmosphere containing water vapor?

Who knows, an earthquake, maybe it exploded, and it is now a giant rock. Who knows?

"Given the difficulties humanity faced getting to the top of Everest, how did biblical era men climb it? How did they see so far in an atmosphere containing water vapor?"

The Devil can perform miracles.

 

Wait, why am I evil?

You are evil because you have done evil things in your life.

Are you saying I turned evil when I was a 10 year old in grade school?

 

Yes, you regretted taking The Gift, and you took it back, and exchanged it for the evil that you did.

How do you know I was raised in good?

You would have never been a Christian if you were not raised in good.

What do you know about me or my family?

Remember this?

That is easy for me. I became a Christian because my parents had me baptized, took me to church, sent me to Catholic school, and told who and what God was. The experience that made me turn to atheism was also the fact that I went to school where I learned about science, how to think logically, and to question what I am told.

And how do you know not many of the kids at my school were Christians?

I don't. I just think so. It sounds more likely for you to regret The Gift, if you were around people who regretted it.

And most importantly, who are you to judge me?

Who am I to judge you? I am not really judging you, I am just telling you my beliefs and what will happen to you if they are right.

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Okay then, all you atheists, tell us your experience that was most likely to make you become a Christian, and then tell us what experience made you mostly turn to athism.

We'll see how they compare…

Nothing made me turn to atheism. I am a skeptic and don't believe in anything for which there is no proof. There is no proof of deities so there is no reason to believe in them. If everyone were the skeptic they should be there would be no debates about deities at all.

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Oh, sorry, I thought it was NIV.

 

 

That I would succeed. Here's the deal.

Take a globe. You can see half of the globe. Turn it 180°, you can see the other half. At that time they occupied less than half the world. Turn it so that mountain would be facing the middle of your face. Move it closer to you, until you can't see the east of China. Certainly you can have a mountain that high.

Actually try it. By the way, to scale, the Earth is smoother than a cue ball. How tall must your mountain be for your solution to work if it's possible at all?

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Oh, sorry, I thought it was NIV.

 

 

That I would succeed. Here's the deal.

Take a globe. You can see half of the globe. Turn it 180°, you can see the other half. At that time they occupied less than half the world. Turn it so that mountain would be facing the middle of your face. Move it closer to you, until you can't see the east of China. Certainly you can have a mountain that high.

 

 

Actually no, you cannot have a mountain that high, Mt. Everest is very close to being as high as a mountain can be on the Earth, yes there are limits to how high a mountain can be under the influence of Earths gravity.

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Actually no, you cannot have a mountain that high, Mt. Everest is very close to being as high as a mountain can be on the Earth, yes there are limits to how high a mountain can be under the influence of Earths gravity.

 

The Devil can do miracles.

 

Nothing made me turn to atheism. I am a skeptic and don't believe in anything for which there is no proof. There is no proof of deities so there is no reason to believe in them. If everyone were the skeptic they should be there would be no debates about deities at all.

Skeptics. If the whole world were skeptics(like, very skeptical skeptics), a whole bunch of inventions(light bulb, nuclear energy, and most of all, computers) would not be here.

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You are evil because you have done evil things in your life.

 

Yes, you regretted taking The Gift, and you took it back, and exchanged it for the evil that you did.

 

You would have never been a Christian if you were not raised in good.

 

Remember this?

 

 

I don't. I just think so. It sounds more likely for you to regret The Gift, if you were around people who regretted it.

 

Who am I to judge you? I am not really judging you, I am just telling you my beliefs and what will happen to you if they are right.

My morals and the way I try to live my life are based on my upbringing as a Catholic. It is important enough to me that even though I became an atheist, I sent both of my sons to Catholic schools for 12 years. Most of my comments in religious threads on this site are in defense of religion because I feel that too many of the people on this site are quick to point out the problems with religion without acknowledging the positive aspects.

 

The priests and nuns I know have never judged me the way you do, and the people on this site have never questioned my character based on as little information about me as you have.

 

If the way you interact with me is indicative of the way you interact with others who do not share your beliefs, then it gives me a much better insight into the hostility I see in so many others toward religion. What chance do I have of getting others to be more understanding of religion if people like you, whose job it should be to convince others your way is right, act as you do?

 

It is people with your type of attitude who are pushing people like me further and further from religion. I would sooner align my morals and character with any atheist on this site than with any of the religious like you.

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The Devil can do miracles.

 

The devil? What evidence for there being a devil do you have much less miracles, it's nonsensical and shows that god is not omnipotent.

 

 

Skeptics. If the whole world were skeptics(like, very skeptical skeptics), a whole bunch of inventions(light bulb, nuclear energy, and most of all, computers) would not be here.

 

 

Not true, if not for skeptics we would all think the earth is flat and covered by a crystal dome under water.

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Skeptics. If the whole world were skeptics(like, very skeptical skeptics), a whole bunch of inventions(light bulb, nuclear energy, and most of all, computers) would not be here.

A skeptic is simply someone who questions the validity or authenticity of something purporting to be factual. It has nothing to do with the imagination of inventors and creators.

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Who knows, an earthquake, maybe it exploded, and it is now a giant rock. Who knows?...The Devil can perform miracles.

 

You made the positive assertion. The burden of proof is on you. By dismissing the burden of proof, you've turned your mountain explanation into a logically fallacious and thus dismissible argument.

 

Classify the following people according to good and evil: Zakir Naik, Adolf Hitler, Fred Phelps, Mahatma Gandhi, David Koresh, Thomas Jefferson, Anders Behring Breivik. Then reclassify according to whether they identify as Christian. Compare your lists.

 

 

 

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Actually try it. By the way, to scale, the Earth is smoother than a cue ball. How tall must your mountain be for your solution to work if it's possible at all?

I don't know, but nothing is impossible with God.

 

A skeptic is simply someone who questions the validity or authenticity of something purporting to be factual. It has nothing to do with the imagination of inventors and creators.

So? You're a skeptic. If the light bulb wasn't invented, and you had this idea, you try once, twice, three times...5984 times, 5985 times. Wouldn't you give up in your skepticism far before the over 10 000 tries that it took Edison? Wouldn't you say "I'm skeptical that the next one will work, so I'm skeptical that it is possible" on number 20? To tell you the truth (I'm not very skeptical) I would give up on number 30, or 40. Tell the truth. When would you give up?

 

You made the positive assertion. The burden of proof is on you. By dismissing the burden of proof, you've turned your mountain explanation into a logically fallacious and thus dismissible argument.

 

Classify the following people according to good and evil: Zakir Naik, Adolf Hitler, Fred Phelps, Mahatma Gandhi, David Koresh, Thomas Jefferson, Anders Behring Breivik. Then reclassify according to whether they identify as Christian. Compare your lists.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but the only person on that list that I know is Adolf Hitler.

Evil.

Non-Christian.

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So? You're a skeptic. If the light bulb wasn't invented, and you had this idea, you try once, twice, three times...5984 times, 5985 times. Wouldn't you give up in your skepticism far before the over 10 000 tries that it took Edison? Wouldn't you say "I'm skeptical that the next one will work, so I'm skeptical that it is possible" on number 20? To tell you the truth (I'm not very skeptical) I would give up on number 30, or 40. Tell the truth. When would you give up?

You need to look up the meaning of 'strawman' there strawman...

 

P.S. Yes I'm a skeptic and yes, I happen to hold 2 patents so skeptics can indeed be inventors!

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