ParanoiA Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) The average worker pays (your amount scaled by the amount of income) $65 a year for the federal highway system; since money is fungible you can't tell if that went to the highway close to your home, or somewhere far away from home. It doesn't matter. What D H was referring to (AFAICT) was your accounting of the services you used. He asked "Have you done a full accounting of the goods and services you receive" IOW, did you actually think through all of the tax-funded details that you take for granted. e.g. compared to the common tolls we see on other highways, did you use $65 worth of the federal system? There's a local toll road that costs about 30 cents per mile, so you only need 220 miles of highway driving to have gotten your money's worth. Did I use any foodstamps? No. Section 8 housing? No. Do I receive farming subsidies? No. Do I use Medicare? No. Damn, that piece of the highway I'm using is getting pretty damned expensive. But that doesn't matter anyway, because my disparagement of the confiscation method in trade for goods and services was not based on value, but on economic models of managing scarcity. If D H meant to challenge me on the value I get, then he missed it too. I'm talking about economic models, since ydoaPs tried to characterize state confiscation methodology as "payment for goods and services", emphasis mine. Let's review what I actually said: It's also the worst goods and services solution I've ever been a part of since my taxes are not the least bit proportional to the "goods and services" I received. Like I said, my taxes are not proportional to the goods and services I receive, as I do not see the math on my tax forms that connects the two. I may be receiving way more than I deserve, or I may be receiving way less than I'm paying for, or it may vary from year to year. But it most certainly is not proportional to each other by any consistent pricing scheme - again, an exception to the rules that private business has to follow. I believe that is a shitty way to do business. The worst solution I've seen yet for goods and services. I'm not sure if pricing by race or religion would be worse or better. See? From the very beginning my argument was about lack of proportion between taxes and government provided goods and services, an economic criticism not a value argument. I even conceded I may be getting more than I deserve (bolded). There's a line between payment and confiscation, and I don't charaterize confiscation as a moral economic model. It's merely a pragmatic reality of government operations - the government has to have funds to operate and it can't be usage sensitive. I accept that. I don't, however, display pride about it on political boards. The fact that humans need an external force at all, government we call it, to keep them decent to each other is another example of something we should not be "proud" of. The fact that individual accounting of specific government goods and services consumed per individual doesn't exist, proves there is no deliberate link between what one consumes and what one sacrifices for it. In terms of economic models, since its being characterized as payment for goods and services, the closest model that resembles is a command economy. If you dont like the analogy, then I would guess you dont like the characterization of it being a payment for goods and services either. You are, of course, free to move to a place that doesn't collect taxes at the figurative point of a gun. And just so I don't have to post 5 more times what I didn't say, I'll say again, the only point I was making with this is that it's only better than any alternative we've thought of so far. Well, so much for that… Edited February 11, 2011 by ParanoiA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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