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Origin of the universe


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Is it possible to identify the point in the universe where the big bang occurred, to identify a point inthe universe where everything is moving away, blasted outwards from the big bang. And if so, where is it?

 

 

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Is there a point in the universe not expanding?

 

nope.

 

Are you saying everywhere is the "center" of the universe, that there is no actual one point, that is smack in the center of the thing?

 

yep, thats what current observations suggest.

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Do you think its because it cannot be determined where it is?, or because it would be moving around?or because normal math breaks down that we cannot define a center in a finite space (unless the universe is defined as infinite). In a normal explosion you would be able to afterwards define a center of the explosion. Why not with this explosion?

 

I would assume some kind of center existed before big bang, and that perhaps now a center would be somewhere where there is nothing left because everything exploded away from there

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so it must have been incredibly hot because of the pressure inside space. Do we have any guesses as to how long space had that size, and what caused it to start to expand?

 

(just thinking maybe time is a meaningless concept in this context, so you could say it was there without time, outside time or forever? I mean did time exist back then in the way we understand it now?)

Edited by Slehm
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You mean space between objects that are not gravitationaly bound. IIRC , following the standard model, only space between galaxy clusters is expanding.

 

I simply love the way you do it "Michael-half dozen" or so. It's amazing how we put our faith in the unknow, even when it is pontificated by others without a clue, and only in theory at best. I wonder if a GOD could fit in there? Edited by rigney
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I never involve God.

I don't understand why we have to go into this. I have a lot of questions but I never never never wait for a godlike answer.

 

Pardon me!. I sense that you are extremely sensitive to blase statements in any accord. There was nothing more defining in that elocution than saying, a "Santa Claus". Thor, Zeus or Ptolemy. Edited by rigney
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nope.

 

Can this be demonstrated with the certainty equal to the certainty of your response? If so, please do. since nope is unambiguous, please provide unequivocal evidence that cannot be any other way. You have made a bold claim, back it up with equally bold evidence.

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Is it possible to identify the point in the universe where the big bang occurred, to identify a point inthe universe where everything is moving away, blasted outwards from the big bang. And if so, where is it?

 

The center of the universe, the place that everything is expanding away from, is 15 billion years ago. Although perhaps its more accurate to say there is no center.

 

Oh, and don't go with the universe being at one point. We don't know that and it doesn't even make sense, since a point is zero-dimensional.

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The center of the universe, the place that everything is expanding away from, is 15 billion years ago. Although perhaps its more accurate to say there is no center.

 

Oh, and don't go with the universe being at one point. We don't know that and it doesn't even make sense, since a point is zero-dimensional.

 

How can a thing, the universe for instance; expand for "15 minutes or 15 billion" years and not start with some sort of center and dimension, regardless of its size? I simply can't imagine the origin of anything having neither. Edited by rigney
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How can a thing, the universe for instance; expand for "15 minutes or 15 billion" years and not start with some sort of center and dimension, regardless of its size? I simply can't imagine the origin of anything having neither.

 

Take a rubber balloon, and draw points all over it. Then inflate it and the distance between the points increases. Which point on the balloon is the center of the expansion? None of them... the center of the expansion is not on the surface of the balloon but in the "center" of it, even though there never was any balloon at that point. Furthermore, if you use spherical coordinate system with longitude and latitude to specify a point on the balloon, the expansion would be along the radial component which could be considered the time dimension given continuous inflation.

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Take a rubber balloon, and draw points all over it. Then inflate it and the distance between the points increases. Which point on the balloon is the center of the expansion? None of them... the center of the expansion is not on the surface of the balloon but in the "center" of it, even though there never was any balloon at that point. Furthermore, if you use spherical coordinate system with longitude and latitude to specify a point on the balloon, the expansion would be along the radial component which could be considered the time dimension given continuous inflation.

 

IMHO the balloon analogy is not a good one. When the balloon inflates, the distance between the points increase, but the points itselfs increase as well. In the balloon analogy, everything increase. It is a scale-factor analogy that involves even the inside "structure" of the point. It is not a representation that matches what is stated in the standard model.

A better analogy is the raisin-cake: the raisin itself is not influenced by the scale factor and represents correctly the gravitationaly bound object, i.e. the galaxy cluster.

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Whole-universe inflation in the early universe is supported by cosmic microwave background measurements, which would show anomalies from inhomogeneities in inflation.

 

My understanding is that microwave background measurements are not homogeneous rather there is a small degree of variation, please confirm the measurements are completely free of anomalies. What degree of variation unequivocally are inconsistent with other expansion models? References please.

Edited by cypress
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The question was about points in the universe that don't expand at all. There are inhomogeneities in the CMBR indicative of small random fluctuations in the early universe, but as far as I know they are indicated as corroborating whole-universe inflation theory quite well.

 

Now, this says nothing of the universe's current state, since the CMBR is quite old. The current rate of expansion is determined by redshifts, and I don't know how comprehensive that data is.

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