Why does everybody write so well in their posts?

[timo]

When writing papers for publication their language must be clear and concise so that others know exactly what they have done or discovered. That style of writing they bring here and it sets a standard, even if they don't see it in that light.

That's only what the undergrads are being told. In reality, it is much harder. Explanations must be stripped off as many details as possible [*] without losing valuable arguments supporting your claim. Thereafter, you have to make your mediocre work sound as spectacular as possible without technically lying. That is the real challenge. See here for, let's face it, not-sooooo-unrealistic examples (my favorite being "correct within an order of magnitude" except that in my field people use "in qualitative agreement"). But it indeed transfers over to sfn B)

 

 

[*] I am currently reading a physics paper which on first glance seems to be a bitter fail in this respect (though potentially interesting science-wise). They not only tell the reader which hardware they ran their computer simulation on (I don't really care that much about that information), but even that they programmed in C (or C++) on a system running on Windows XP, and that they consider rewriting their program in CUDA (that might be remotely interesting wasn't it for the fact that virtually everyone does so) .

Edited October 20, 2010 by timo

[Ophiolite]

IIRC I use IIRC frequently on here.

IIRC you do.

[Klaynos]

That's only what the undergrads are being told. In reality, it is much harder. Explanations must be stripped off as many details as possible [*] without losing valuable arguments supporting your claim. Thereafter, you have to make your mediocre work sound as spectacular as possible without technically lying. That is the real challenge. See here for, let's face it, not-sooooo-unrealistic examples (my favorite being "correct within an order of magnitude" except that in my field people use "in qualitative agreement"). But it indeed transfers over to sfn B)

 

 

[*] I am currently reading a physics paper which on first glance seems to be a bitter fail in this respect (though potentially interesting science-wise). They not only tell the reader which hardware they ran their computer simulation on (I don't really care that much about that information), but even that they programmed in C (or C++) on a system running on Windows XP, and that they consider rewriting their program in CUDA (that might be remotely interesting wasn't it for the fact that virtually everyone does so) .

 

 

I quite frequently write "no one cares about this" on undergrad reports I mark. Learning what to leave out is quite important.

[Genecks]

I think when a person asks a sophisticated question here and then types at the end "thx" I can't help but feel that person only wants to meet the end goal of that question. Unless it's a very sophisticated question requiring knowledge of a person who has a specialized interest in that, I find that someone using "thx" while asking a generic science question is wasting my time and not acting professional.

 

But if someone started talking about cellular membrane consistency, atrophy, and cellular death all in reference to cryogenic and cellular revival of whole mammalian organisms... well then I'm probably going to ignore the "thx," because that post (if asking a detailed question for which there may be a speculative theory/hypothesis present) is of interest to me: As such, I may reply to it.

 

In my view, it's about professionalism.

 

In another light, it's about keeping up my writing and communication skills.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Genecks

[Darwinsbulldog]

http://speaklolcat.com/

[CharonY]

I quite frequently write "no one cares about this" on undergrad reports I mark. Learning what to leave out is quite important.

 

I keep it more concise. Mostly I just write "so?" extensively in manuscript or thesis drafts....

[dragonstar57]

because no one uses the "abbreviate every word" style or what i call "text speak".

if your goal is to save time/effort are you going to learn a whole new vocabulary of text terms? are you going to use terminology that not only takes away from your point but makes you look stupid?

no your probably not. and its not worth cutting a few characters if the prise is loosing legibility

its also possible that many members do not know the popular slang terms so they can't use them and you should consider weather they can read them when you post.

Edited November 13, 2010 by dragonstar57

[Ophiolite]

because no one uses the "abbreviate every word" style or what i call "text speak".

if your goal is to save time/effort are you going to learn a whole new vocabulary of text terms? are you going to use terminology that not only takes away from your point but makes you look stupid?

no your probably not. and its not worth cutting a few characters if the prise is loosing legibility

its also possible that many members do not know the popular slang terms so they can't use them and you should consider weather they can read them when you post.

How do you feel about spelling and capitalisation?

[timo]

How do you feel about [...] capitalisation?

if your goal is to save time/effort are you going to learn a whole new set of ascii characters?

[dragonstar57]

because no one uses the "abbreviate every word" style or what i call "text speak".

if your goal is to save time/effort are you going to learn a whole new vocabulary of text terms? are you going to use terminology that not only takes away from your point but makes you look stupid?

no your probably not. and its not worth cutting a few characters if the prise is loosing legibility

its also possible that many members do not know the popular slang terms so they can't use them and you should consider weather they can read them when you post.

 

How do you feel about spelling and capitalisation?

true, my grammar is very poor but at least i can say its not deliberate stupidity whereas my peers cannot.

its "capitalization" not "capitalisation" but whats the point of capitalization at all? it really doesn't do much

Edited November 13, 2010 by dragonstar57

[insane_alien]

true, my grammar is very poor but at least i can say its not deliberate stupidity whereas my peers cannot.

its "capitalization" not "capitalisation" but whats the point of capitalization at all? it really doesn't do much

 

Ophiolite is from the UK. I can confirm, that in proper English, it is indeed "capitalisation" and that "capitalization" is a corruption of the origional word as is common in "US English"

[StringJunky]

true, my grammar is very poor but at least i can say its not deliberate stupidity whereas my peers cannot.

its "capitalization" not "capitalisation" but whats the point of capitalization at all? it really doesn't do much

 

It's easier on the eye and facilitates the reader in their search for relevant sentences in a large body of text with capitals by acting as convenient markers and aiding segmentation....Apart from that, it looks better IMO.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Indeed. It's very difficult to skim text that makes no use of capitalization; you can't find where one sentence ends and the next begins. Also, many people who don't use capitalization don't bother with using paragraphs, making a dense wall of text that'd exceedingly difficult to read.

[StringJunky]

The reality is....ones capture rate of readers/responders will fall exponentially without capitals and paragraphs. Why should we readers wade through another poster's laziness? If the presentation is neglected the content probably is also. Insane Alien's the only notable exception I can think of and even he is endeavouring to break the habit of not using upper case.

[dragonstar57]

The reality is....ones capture rate of readers/responders will fall exponentially without capitals and paragraphs. Why should we readers wade through another poster's laziness? If the presentation is neglected the content probably is also. Insane Alien's the only notable exception I can think of and even he is endeavouring to break the habit of not using upper case.

well everyone is but some still forget

[StringJunky]

well everyone is but some still forget

 

I know... old habits die hard but the more effort you put into your presentation the more informed your readers will be as to your true intent. It helps to reduce ambiguity and can also impart your desired tone if you are thoughtful in the use of the literary palette at your disposal. Scientific communication needs every bit of agreed convention it can lay its hands to keep misunderstandings to the absolute minimum....it seems difficult enough to put some vague or difficult idea across when all parties toe the line and conform anyway without being idiosyncratic..

Edited November 13, 2010 by StringJunky

[Ophiolite]

Nicely expressed StringJunky - I've given you a + for succinct expression.

 

With reference to capitalisation, it was Churchill who described the Americans and the English as "two peoples separated by a common language."

Churchill would have been a blast on a forum.

 

if your goal is to save time/effort are you going to learn a whole new set of ascii characters?

I need to learn new ASCII characters to capitalise? I think not.

And the time and effort saved is that of the writer (one person) not the readers (hopefully several). It is rude, inconsiderate, mindless, counterproductive, foolish and ****ing annoying when people are slovenly in their writing. It betrays a second rate mind with third rate prospects. One suspects that people who wallow in such incompetence have no idea how to use a bidet.

[timo]

You are aware that I was making fun by twisting the statement "if your goal is to save time/effort are you going to learn a whole new vocabulary of text terms?", are you?

[Ophiolite]

No. If I had been, I would hardly have made the post I did.

 

Since your grammar is in shape should you work on your humour?

[StringJunky]

Nicely expressed StringJunky - I've given you a + for succinct expression.

 

With reference to capitalisation, it was Churchill who described the Americans and the English as "two peoples separated by a common language."

Churchill would have been a blast on a forum. >:

 

Thanks

 

I agree, I rate Churchill's wit as sharp as Oscar Wild's. They both have made me smile broadly in the past with their witty observations and uniquely cutting literary style. Their words epitomise my favourite definition of poise: the art of raising the eyebrows and not the roof.

[michel123456]

"epitomise" woaw.

But what has poise to do here?

Edited November 14, 2010 by michel123456

[StringJunky]

"epitomise" woaw.

But what has poise to do here?

 

Nothing. I was relating that quality to Churchill that Ophiolite mentioned.

[michel123456]

Hm. You are too educated to misuse poise for poesy. You certainly meant poise. I am not sure viewers using foreign language understood your post #45 properly.

I voted for your post #41 too. It was nicely said.

 

I use this forum to improve my english as well. I learn a lot here, good & bad. Usually good.

I waste a huge amount of efforts reading my own posts and correcting, 2 or 3 times, often more. And I still make mistakes.

Edited November 14, 2010 by michel123456

[Ophiolite]

Hm. You are too educated to misuse poise for poesy. You certainly meant poise. I am not sure viewers using foreign language understood your post #45 properly.

Poise in this context works for me. Those who have poise stand, or sit, or walk, with a combination of elegance and confidence. Metaphorically they conduct themselves in the same way, in behaviour and speech and writing. It's not the word I would have chosen, but it's close enough.

 

I waste a huge amount of efforts reading my own posts and correcting, 2 or 3 times, often more. And I still make mistakes.

1. The time is not wasted, since it helps you improve your English and other posters to understand your meaning. That is not time wasted, but time invested.

2. Everyone makes mistakes otherwise we would be members of homo intolerablamus.

[StringJunky]

Hm. You are too educated to misuse poise for poesy. You certainly meant poise. I am not sure viewers using foreign language understood your post #45 properly.

I voted for your post #41 too. It was nicely said.

 

I use this forum to improve my english as well. I learn a lot here, good & bad. Usually good.

I waste a huge amount of efforts reading my own posts and correcting, 2 or 3 times, often more. And I still make mistakes.

 

I'm sorry Michel If my response appeared terse in anyway and thank you for liking that post. Like you, I endeavour to vet my posts for context and general writing accuracy but invariably miss a mistake somewhere...it irks me to notice afterwards. My use of the the word 'poise' was one those things lost on you (which Ophiolite's post has enlightened you hopefully) but that's probably just one of the subtleties between native English speakers as I'm sure there are between native speakers in your language which goes over our English/American heads!

 

In future, I shall be more mindful of potential misunderstandings by non-native speakers and be prepared to explain myself more fully.

Edited November 14, 2010 by StringJunky